To not think the UK is as bad as everyone makes out?

[turkeypasty]

Sorry if this is an odd question but everywhere on mumsnet you see rants about how terrible everything is. I am European and could move abroad, but my son and husband (and myself) are super happy here in the UK, the primary school is lovely, we live in the North in the hills and get plenty of outdoor time... We earn ok but not massively and seem to live a good lifestyle- do you think that people just like to moan or have I got very low standards?! There seems to be issues in every country you live surely... It makes me genuinely think if I should move abroad whilst my son is still young, but then why should we if we are happy here? Just really interested in opinions!

THIS.

We also have HUGE influence from foreign powers who wish to destablise the country, look at the riots in summer, so much online whipping up anger was from outside the UK, look at Musk, he's happy to bankroll any party that will shake the system up. I think part of the reason he's fallen out of love with Farage is he's worked out Farage is not a revolutionary , he just wants to do want Trump did with the Republican party , take over the Tory party and lead it.

It used to be a badge of honour in this country to be reasonable and level headed, (Or at least to act like that) now its reversed to have a strong opnion on everything, never give in and never listen to someone else's view.

You think the UK has more dog shit than other countries?!

That has not been my experience.

See, I do disagree with this. Many European cities are filthy and graffiti covered. Yes, it's not drawings of dicks like it is here but it's still graffiti, everywhere, and dog shit.

Manchester and Leeds and I go into both, they're clean and functional and I don't see anti social behaviour.

I only go into Manchester for meetings. I come in at Piccadilly and then stay at whatever hotel is deemed cheapest. It get to them by walking through Piccadilly Gardens and the area round there. I see a lack of cleanliness, substantial anti-social behaviour, and people who seem to be homeless. A couple of hotels used to have security people in their foyer that asked you for your details before you were able to enter the hotel or return to your room.
But, I come in during the evening and leave during the evening. I probably miss the hours of the day when the area has been cleaned and all that's happening is part of the usual working or commercial hustle and bustle.

I agree to a certain extent. But a lot of us ageing had the foresight not to rely upon the State supporting us and have made decent provision for older age throughout our working lives. The NHS is possibly the single greatest contribution made to the country and its people in the 20th century, however it’s success in helping millions live better and longer lives has never been underpinned by later legislation that took into consideration just how much care some older people might need. Add into this equation the number of single people raising children, the exploding number of children with SENs and other needs, and it’s a perfect storm. It’s social care, and children’s services that are crippling most local authorities nowadays, and the strain of caring for SEN pupils in schools requires many more staff than in my school days.

Brits love to moan. I love my little corner of the country (Devon) but I do think we have a problem in that house prices are so high that quality of life for most people is getting worse not better. Combined with the fact that taxes are at a near record high whilst public services feel so poor, it is hard to see how things are going to improve.

We drive into places like Manchester, Leeds and our first thoughts are always, what a sh*t hole. Yes the glitzy centres are ok, the wealthy areas ok, but the rest is just bloody awful. Made so by the people who live there. Litter, graffiti, uncared for buildings, gardens that have never seen a flower, dirty streets, uncaring people. And you can multiply that 10 fold for London. Except that in London you see the contrast with extreme wealth and dire poverty much more.

I voted YANBU, OP, and I have to admit to groaning out loud when I saw a thread here about lots of young British people wanting to move abroad, because it was so obvious that it would soon fill up with lots of people moaning about how utterly terrible the UK is and how every sane person is dying to leave.

Although I love living in the UK (and I lived in Germany for many years before coming back here), I do agree with some PP that things used to be better than they are now. The NHS is often cited, of course, and for me, the Royal Mail is another prime example. When I was growing up, we sometimes had the luxury of 'second post', i.e. two postal deliveries a day. Now I'm lucky to get two deliveries a week, and even then I'm a lot more fortunate than many other people in my area. In a Facebook group for my town and the vicinity, quite a few people are saying that they've missed hospital appointments because the letters weren't delivered until two, three or even more weeks after the hospital sent them. So yeah, there are doubtless far worse places to live than the UK, but I do feel that it used to be a lot better than it is now.

Weird generalisation upthread, by the way. 'Life overseas is far easier in many respects'? Where overseas? Everywhere? Every other country in the world? I feel like I see this kind of thing on MN quite often, as though there's 'the UK' and 'Europe', or even just 'overseas', and as though everywhere that isn't the UK is exactly the same. 'We moved to Europe and everything is so much better here!' Ridiculous.

A lot of things are wrong with the U.K. at the moment, stupidly high property prices being just one. But it’s much the same in many other countries - only the other night I heard a piece on the World Service about completely unaffordable house/flat prices for younger people in Australia.

And ditto to what a pp said about food prices. I was 😱 not too long ago at having to pay €4 for a cauliflower - at the French equivalent of Tesco, not some high-end organic shop. Why there is still (apparently) so much food waste, I do often wonder.

As for weather, at least we are spared most of the extremes, inc. devastating wildfires, and not just in the US. Friends living near Perth (Oz) had to leave their home a couple of years ago, because of a wildfire raging a very short distance away. Luckily their house was spared, but OMG, I’d hate to live anywhere with that sort of terrifying danger lurking. I’ve visited Australia twice, and both times there was severe drought - signs saying ‘Every Drop Is Precious’.
I don’t know about anybody else but I find it very scary when it - just - doesn’t - rain.

Living standards are going to decrease in the West over the next 20 years.

I think that is pretty much baked in, unless some magic happens.

Countries that they’re not eligible to live and work in such as US, scandi countries or Japan. Not faultless but I think their citizens have better prospects than ours.

Also not saying being an immigrant in those societies would be easy and I think the UK is a very tolerant place (I’m an immigrant but fully integrated) but I look here and don’t see much to feel hopeful about

Living standards are declining across the west and people are feeling it. I don't think that the UK is any worse than anywhere else, we are just more aware of what the problems are here! There are good things and bad things in every country.

When people say that they are a going of to live in Dubai I find it hysterical. Wouldn't want to live by their laws personally!

Yes, the UK is fantastic at integrating newcomers, probably because it is a transient place. I have always, always felt super welcome and have a great network of friends. In a lot of EU countries, it is a lot harder to make friends if you have not grown up there.

I think it's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy, in thst we enthusiastically embrace everything from the US, from food culture to culture war politics, whereas in Europe they seem to have more National pride. This may be because their languages are not as International and they want to cling to things like French language films and music, or Italian food, etc, and are prepared to defend it more vigorously. For example, fruit and vegetables may be 3x more expensive in Spain, but only 18% of their diet is made up of UPF crappy food and fast food, whereas for us, it's more like 50% with the resultant obesity and poor health, which made our covid recovery worse than elsewhere. Sweden have seen problems caused by people coming from places which don't refpect women and have cracked down hard and fast to protect their liberal values and society. We drag our feet and use it for political point scoring. If people who have a culture see little value in it, what's the point in protecting it? I do think it's a peculiar English thing. The Scots and Welsh are not so dismissive of their own culture.

Of course it isn't. But many people have this obsession with whining and winging. You need to learn to ignore them.

It could be a lot worse, but things have definitely changed in a bad way the last decade or so.

High streets are often abandoned, closed shops everywhere and in a state of decline and decay

Anti social behaviour huge increases.

Shoplifting is now rife

We now have GB news pumping their brand of divisive, one sided rhetoric that many consume and think is normal. I’m all for differing viewpoints etc but the way they do it is deliberately designed to divide and inflame rather than just report.

Crumbling underfunded nhs/schools

Drug use commonplace esp cocaine- it’s everywhere now, spice too in certain areas.

The roads are full of potholes, the waterways full of sewage.

None of these were such a huge problem 15-20 years ago like they are now.

My DH comes from another European country - one constantly cited as ‘the happiest’. Honestly they moan just as much as us. About immigration, house/rental prices, COL, litter, traffic, anti social behaviour, benefits, utility prices, pension age. And they’ve had a massive swing towards right wing parties. My cousin-in-law there has just had cancer treatment and has had to put in a complaint - and they have to pay ‘insurance’ up to a limit - no free treatment for everyone.

The difference is that they’re not afraid to be patriotic too and they celebrate the good. So they can say all of that but still love their country and recognise the huge benefits they have. We seem to lose sight of the positives.

I would say that Europe and the West generally feel in decline and we need to realise we’re not alone in that.

I used to think that about the weather, but with climate change I think we are lucky with out weather (although I live in the SE so perhaps it is easier for me to say).

Just said something similar. This has happened through history. Countries rise and fall. The west has passed its peak and is now in natural decline. The next superpowers will probably be China and India.

I agree. I sometimes wonder how long Australia will actually be a habitable country.

And thank god we don't have the tornadoes etc seen in the states.

I think most people don't know what being an ordinary citizen is like in other countries away from the capital and tourist spots in the summer.

Is mid january really much different in say inland brittainy in France, France has very similar problems, food proportionally and in relation to wages is much cheaper in UK than most of the world. The gilet jaunes are still protesting; Paris is very expensive and some of the suburbs are terrible Marie le Pen is popular for a reason the political elite in France like in many other countries simply do not understand or care about the working poor
Barcelona has the same problem as London too many properties owned and not lived in by Foreign nationals; turning homes into airbnb or simply living vacant as a propety speculation investment
Youth unemployment is a much bigger problem in many countries in Europe,
childcare is higher in UK than most of Europe but broadband clothes etc are cheaper
The grass is generally not greener as a holiday view of a place is not the reality

Scandinavia is often thought of as better but there are big problems in some places there too and there is a general expectation that you need to assimulate quickly and do things their way, they are definitely less diverse

While the UK, France Germany Spain etc are all generally very safe places in all of these countries there are pockets where it is not, bad estates, sink schools etc, there is no Utopia

But yes people like a moan. I don't know if Brits moan more or less than anyone else though

Agree. Certainly with regard to Europe anyway. Conversations with friends in Portugal, Spain, France, Belgium, Netherlands and Germany (I've moved around a lot😂) all have the same tone and the same criticisms of their countries and governments as the UK tbh. And it's been that way for years too. But people here in the UK don't seem to think that is the case, unless they have direct contact with normal people living in these countries. I've got friends and family in Australia and USA, but they're in more of a 'living the dream' lifestyle atm so maybe not a true representation of more normal people living in those places. Of all the places I've lived I'd say Singapore would be the one I'd probably want to choose to grow old in - but you need a hell of a lot of money to do that, so not viable really. The UK is a good balance overall, though I agree it does feel less good than 25 years ago, but maybe every generation thinks the same, albeit for different reasons.

I'm so grateful for what I have. Life did a 180 in a way I hadn't expected and I had state support here I wouldn't get elsewhere.

I think the state of things is really concerning and on the decline though and that's what people are upset about.

As a regular hospital user, it's a terrifying place. I've experienced alot first hand in the hospital and waiting for ambulances ( drove myself which was dangerous one time, vomiting as I drove because no ambulance was coming).

The housing situation is diabolical and worsening. I see people working hard but screwed over in a messed up private rental sector. The justice system is beyond questionable. Education is really failing down the toilet, we have a SEN crisis that I have no doubt is impacting all kids in school. Social care is non existent and down the toilet. We have a sense of unrest that I feel even out here in my quiet rural town.

It could be a million times worse, it could be Afghanistan.

I’m thinking of moving to Australia. And when Aussies ask me why, I’ll tell ‘em that I’m fed up with listening to whinging Poms…