To not think the UK is as bad as everyone makes out?

[turkeypasty]

Sorry if this is an odd question but everywhere on mumsnet you see rants about how terrible everything is. I am European and could move abroad, but my son and husband (and myself) are super happy here in the UK, the primary school is lovely, we live in the North in the hills and get plenty of outdoor time... We earn ok but not massively and seem to live a good lifestyle- do you think that people just like to moan or have I got very low standards?! There seems to be issues in every country you live surely... It makes me genuinely think if I should move abroad whilst my son is still young, but then why should we if we are happy here? Just really interested in opinions!

It feels like there is very little future for the Uk. I do worry for my kids. Knife crime is rife. Rape is decriminalised. The NHS is broken with no ideas (or political will) how to fix it. Councils are bankrupt and ineffective. Roads are in appalling conditions. Civil service is bloated and out of controls. Education standards are poor. No prospect of economic growth. Massive welfare/ benefits bill that can’t be sustained. Falling birth rates. Increasing influence of political Islam.

What is your personal experience with healthcare though? It differs greatly depending on area. Personally I have had excellent care. I had cancer and was diagnosed within two days, surgery within one month, excellent follow up care. I got much better care than all the Americans I know on a Facebook group for this cancer, and they're paying a fortune for healthcare.
My DS needed surgery last year. It wasn't urgent but it was done within a month.
Last month I was very unwell with dizziness and nausea and got an appointment within two hours. I always get appointments easily and if not, there's a walk in clinic within a mile from my house. Never had to wait more than 20 minutes at a walk in clinic.
A and E wait times are awful but if anyone's in genuine danger of death they will be seen immediately.

I also think it's good that people are vocal about all the things that aren't working for the people who live in the country. There is no point in saying there are countries that have it worse, it's not a race to the bottom and you shouldn't compare yourself to a poorer country. There is money in the UK, it's just distributed in a shambolic way and that shouldn't be tolerated.

I don't know any war-free country in Europe that has declined the way the UK has in the last few years. I know we were all hit with rising interest rates, more expensive food and energy bills etc but not to the level the UK was and where I am we are now moving in the other direction with lower interest rates and better wellfare again. The UK seem to still be in a decline.

YANBU, OP - and I am saying that as an Irish person who, on some level, is looking to find fault with the UK. But actually I live here because there are lots of jobs and the standard of living is pretty good, schools are decent, I can walk the streets in safety, and I don't like extreme weather so I'm fine with the climate here.

I am wondering about all the threads seeking to stir up negativity about the UK, and also the deluge of miserable people rushing to reinforce the negativity. Is it just whingeing poms? Or is there some anti UK propagandist at work?

Yeah I know what you mean, it really does vary. I have had a bit of both- what I do find is that the NHS staff is second to none compared to lots of other places I have seen- the way they work under pressure and their immense empathy. We have so far had some very good experiences and some that weren't.

Thanks for your reply @TheYearOfSmallThings . Yes I agree- especially on the job opportunities bit- there is a lot more variety than where I am from and more flexible in terms of WFH etc. I also think people don't realise that a lot of other countries are having the same / similar problems.

You see posts like this make me wonder, what country do you think your children would be better off in?

I might come off as incredibly entitled here... (I am... I know...)
What is making me hate the UK atm is I work my ass off. Earn well. Have no time and no money.
My annual bonus takes me into the 60% tax bracket and I get fuck all for that. We use my work private healthcare and pay out of pocket for GP appointments.
Yes we have a free school place but any additional childcare / club is more £££. We send out girls to a private tutor to make up for the total lack of 1:2:1 in School... they are drawing in an inner city 9 form school.
I feel like we are paying too much to cover corporations not paying tax and covering people who don't contribute at all!

I have always felt really left leaning but the decline in living standards in the UK is making me look like a raving Tory (I hate me too....)

I agree OP and I think the negativity is part of the problem. The British have never been particularly sunny and optimistic, culturally, but they used to have a lot of national solidarity and confidence. It’s easy to see that if you lose that confidence it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

If you actually look at the hard facts we are all really lucky in this country. Almost everyone can get a job if they want one, education is good, food is cheap, almost everyone can afford a roof over their heads, healthcare is free, it’s safe to walk the streets, we are free to say and believe anything we like. If you are positive and hard-working you can go far. It’s absolutely not perfect but compared to 100 years ago it’s paradise.

If you look at the OECD quality of life index, we’re not right at the top but we’re nearly there. I hope to educate my children well so the world is their oyster. I want them to be free to choose to live here or not. For myself, I wouldn’t live anywhere else.

I also think people don't realise that a lot of other countries are having the same / similar problems.

That is definitely true.

What I'm seeing from these posts is just how different people's experiences are. People talking about rubbish, poor NHS care and knife crime. None of that is an issue where I live. Streets are very clean. I don't see rubbish on the floor. No knife that I know of in my area. It's sad that we can live in the same country and have vastly different experiences.

It’s just so expensive. Lots of people have to be really careful with their money every month. It just isn’t like that in other places. Of course everywhere has its downsides and nowhere is perfect.. but yeah. The UK seems to have a lack of opportunities.

Life overseas is far easier in many respects.

I actually think the issue is the political scene has become so polarised, it feels like you have to be vastly left or right. No one votes centric because of something that happened over two decades ago. This means every few years the new party comes in and reverses everything just done, meaning we are spending loads of ££ and standing still.

Also the effects of Brexit are hitting hard now. There's no wiggle room for the resultant rising costs in the average household budget.

This is the crux of it.

People are unhappy because it's declining, not because it's inherently a bad place to live compared to the rest of the world.

It's still one of the wealthiest countries in the world, with little risk of natural disasters, war on our soil, etc.

But relative to its standing in the world a few decades ago, it's a mess, and it's getting worse. People here are unhappy because they are used to better.

At least they have the same/similar problems with better weather.

I'd disagree with lack of opportunities. The main reason we have so many immigrants is purely because of the wealth of opportunities and jobs available. My DH grew up in a beautiful southern European country. The kind of place us Brits ream of moving to. He had to leave it to go to university because they simply didn't have many courses available there. He's stayed in the UK because there are just no jobs available in his country. 25% of the young people in his country have left to find jobs elsewhere (many coming to the UK).

Depends how you view 'better weather'. I think we have pretty good weather here in the UK relative to many countries.

We have reasonable summers, manageable winters, and are at much less risk of climate/ weather-related disasters than many countries. Pretty good in my books.

Haha, yeah you are right, it's not the sunniest of places 😂In fairness though, some European countries are getting so hot, I would much rather have English weather

Yep true!

This is very interesting!

It depends what sector you want to work in. If you're a tradie, there's an abundance of work. If you're an academic, Oxbridge no longer has the international reputation of a few decades ago and US/Canada/Aus considered much better for research and cutting-edge, medicine, etc. There was a government committee addressing it a few months ago as they're worried about the decline of UK research and prestigious unis, especially as it means so many young people moving abroad.

I think it depends on your circumstances

if you need NHS services regularly, then life is going to be difficult

if you have children at nursery, then cost of living is difficult for many

the list goes on

but for many this country has a lot going for living here

I don' t think this is the reality of a lot of people...
Loads of people can't find decent employment, housing, school places...
Food is expensive. Free healthcare is limited. Education is diabolical!

^ Agree. Don't misunderstand me, I love the UK, wouldn't want to live anywhere else and feel people here don't always appreciate what they have compared to other people in the world.

But things do feel worse. For me there were a few phases to this:

2001 - a defining 'world before' and 'world after' moment
2012 - the Olympics amplified the 'London vs. rest of UK' divide
2016 - Brexit , the poor encouraged to make themselves poorer
2020 - Covid, another 'before' and 'after' moment

I'm not sure how much of this is UK only, but people have become unhappier, nastier, more selfish, and the divide between the South East and the rest of the UK has become even wider.

I disagree. My DH (who is an immigrant) is an academic in the UK and there are endless opportunities for him here. He's an advisor to the EU and his team of scientific advisors are nearly all from the UK. We have a wealth of knowledge and expertise here. He said as a student you can study any subject you can think of here. He feels as an academic the opportunities are endless.