Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

Your therapist was right, he can't or won't change so if you want a different life you'll have to leave.

You don't need your kids' approval for this or to explain it in detail. 'It's not working, we're unhappy together.' They can see it for themselves anyway.

And you certainly don't need to be worrying about Bumble and dating. You need to find peace and purpose on your own - and you will!

I couldn't even finish reading your post OP because it was so incredibly triggering and felt like I had written it. If it's any consolation, I've just turned 41 and my DC are 5&6. We'll be divorcing this year because me and the children deserve more. I won't let one person ruin it for the 3 of us.

There is nobody on your side in this set-up. It must be very lonely. He doesn’t love you. Why stay?

You are responsible for you.

You are not qualified to help him, it’s not your job to fix him.

Do what’s right for you.

Go and stay with someone you can talk to if you can. Have a few days to decide what is best for you. They can look after themselves. They'll learn the hard way.
Go back when you're ready and take action.

Your children need to be told. The reason they need to be told is that ASD is heritable, you've said they have traits, and they need to understand themselves so they can get on in the world.

I am also married to an ASD man and it's not always easy, but he does try. I applaud you for leaving and putting yourself first at this time.

About 9% of autism diagnoses are believed to be inaccurate. A diagnosis is subjective and not infallible. Also you can have narcissism or other personality disorders alongside autism.

Regardless of the pathology that is behind your husband's behaviours, he has no right to abuse you, manipulate you, manipulate your children and set them on you as attack dogs, treat you like an unpaid skivvy, or not even attempt to care for you. These parts are definitely NOT autism.

He knows perfectly well what is important to you, or he wouldn't have immediately reminded you that your smallholding will be gone if you split. He also knows full well how to pull on your children's heartstrings and make them rally for him and fight his battles. He is therefore perfectly capable of understanding emotions when he is using them to manipulate people.

His treatment and vilification of you has taught them that you deserve to be attacked. From your daughter raging at you for not doing a task, to your son's domestic violence towards you. You should seek advice from Women's Aid about your son's behaviour, he is likely also physically abusive in his other relationships with women.

You can leave for any reason you want to, and you don't have to justify it because your husband supposedly has a condition. He would never care for you if you had any kind of diagnosis. Your children are grown and you have no moral obligations whatsoever.

However, if the small holding and job are more important to you than leaving, could there be a compromise of you both agreeing to live separate lives or as housemates under the same roof? De facto separated but not legally divorced?

That way your husband could get the convenience of a continuing housemaid. He would lose the "criticism" as there would be no emotional or romantic expectations on him.

You would be free to avoid him and not provide emotional/romantic services for him, and would not be hurt or disappointed at his uncaring behaviour. Hopefully the emotional distance and lack of expectations would reduce his emotional abuse of you and setting your children on you.

Just an idea. If this is not possible or doesn't work, you'll have to decide whether keeping the smallholding and job, or avoiding emotional abuse and romantic misery is more beneficial to maximising your happiness.

Well firstly good on you for going to the B&B! Sounds like an awful situation and you have suffered for a long time.

I don’t have a similar experience but when I was weighing up whether to leave my first husband, a friend told me to not worry about what I was losing and that I needed to accept that there could actually be better ahead if I left the situation. And there was. I’m sorry to say this but I don’t believe this current situation is going to get better for you.

Your children being involved must be making this even more difficult and your sons behaviour is unacceptable. Your husband cannot pick and choose the information he passes them and if he wishes to involve them so much, then they should know the full picture.

Please prioritise yourself wherever you can.

Also, you can tell your children whatever you want. You have no obligation to keep your husband's secrets if his feelings or reaction are no longer important to you.

You definitely need to talk to your children in some way because regardless of the rights and wrongs of either yours or his behaviour, they are not entitled to team up as attack dogs, get involved in your arguments, shout at you, and certainly not assault you like your large son has. This is an extremely worrying implication for his treatment of women.

This is the best way to look at it. You would never want this for your daughter. You deserve better. That's not being selfish.

Forget dating again, and I know it's awful, but you need to accept losing the smallholding (would devastate me too) because you will feel so much more SANE without his constant gaslighting and covert abuse. He's making you ill. I don't mean to be a dick OP but you're not 30, how many good years do you have left, how many of them are you going to let him steal and destroy with his behaviour?

He's got a cancer diagnosis and you could end up his carer at some point.

Leave now and be glad of it.

He wants to keep the diagnosis secret? Well then he cannot blame you to others for leaving him in the lurch. Expect he will assassinate your character anyway.

I wish you can go far far away from this rubbish and clear your head.

@MyNextSteps i think @RoastDinnerSmellsNice said everything I would advise.

id also stop being the secret keeper and covering up for him.

Let the kids know you are done with their abuse. Tell them off the scare and explain that’s why you were upset. Tell them of the lack of support etc from him.

and tell your child if he ever lays a hand on you again or is threaten inf - you’ll ring the police. ND of not - that isn’t acceptable. I had similar with my son at 16.

Youve done your best. I’d rather be single and renting than tied to this for another 20/30 years. Start making plans for you. Good luck. x

Whatever you do - stop lying to your children by covering up things like DH behaviour around cancer scare. That's so damaging

Sorry just read your post. It is not a cancer diagnosis but suspected cancer. Anyway, time to cut the cancer out.

You have looked after him and your kids and when your youngest turns 18, make plans to look after yourself.

The hardest thing I have noticed is when female parents come to the realisation that no one is going to look after them in the way that they have been looking after others for years. It was never transactional.

Don't fall into the trap of trying to diagnose anyone with anything, just face the facts, its not working, you are at risk and its causing your harm. Use that time to focus on yourself, what do you need to a) survive b) live c) thrive.

Time to start working out the finances and plan to leave.

What would happen if you blew everything wide open and told everyone everything

      *he has just come out of a cancer scare

• he has an autism diagnosis
• he is a professional victim and manipulator
• he doesn't pull his weight as the other parent
• he has avoided emotional and sexual intimacy for over 15 years
• he is skilled at avoiding and projecting shame, blame, guilt, responsibility*

and of course your children have autism

What would happen if everyone knew everything

Sorry don’t know where the black block came from

Life is too short for men who can’t take accountability and make your life hard, sorry to say. Only you know what you really want but if you do stay, maybe you need to discuss an open relationship and start living again.

My ex is similar, I’m done with it. I can’t imagine doing any more years than I’ve done (prison term)..be strong yeah? You need to put yourself first now

Oh OP it was hard enough reading what your life is like with this man but my heart truly sank over your son. I've a 6ft 2" ND 15yo DS who barged past me in a strop, I calmly & VERY firmly took him to task over it & once the penny dropped he looked deeply sad. The idea of your husband encouraging your son's behaviour is just beyond the pale.

Keeping his diagnosis secret is also horribly manipulative. He's awful cos he's awful, not because he's autistic, that's just an excuse.

Of course you need to get out & stay out. If you loved him you couldn't think ahead to other men or dating again, but you are cos you've already checked out. Now you need to follow through.

I agree with pp about your kids realising who he is once you're not there to cover his arse for him.

I'm struggling to understand how one produces five children in such an adverse scenario.

Oh well. In your shoes I'd leave but accept that I would he working forever and have greater chance of winning the Irish Sweepstakes than of finding a desirable new partner in my 60s. It just doesn't happen unless one severely lowers one's standards and is open to old men.

Still, a peaceful life with work and pets sounds better than what you have now.

No ND, but I hear you sista.

You have more courage than I do x

Just to echo what other people have said, the issue isn't your H's autism, it's that he's an abusive fuckwit. I say that as someone with autism, who came to this post expecting it to be another ND bashing thread (sadly common on MN).

Some of the things that bother you (like drifting about all day without a plan) may be down to the autism, and if that was the whole problem I would be suggesting that you could still divorce him, or figure out why you're responding to something that doesn't really affect you.

BUT. He is abusing you. He is encouraging your children to abuse you. His secret keeping is manipulating the whole family, and possibly denying your children access to vital information about themselves. You do not have to be, and should not be, his emotional or physical punching bag. Autism doesn't make someone abusive, being an abusive prick does. Leave, and don't look back. The smallholding might be important to you, and you may well miss it, but not nearly as much as you will value being free in your own life.

Hi OP, your story is very familiar to me. My STBXH is ND, not diagnosed but we both suspect somewhere on the autism scale, and I strongly suspect covert narcissism too. Mine is also a professional victim, and there are many similarities with what you describe.

Being married to mine was the loneliest experience of my life. I literally had no idea it was possible to be that lonely. I even felt it in my dreams.

Now that we are apart, I'm still lonely, not having recovered enough from the years of rejection to date seriously, but the peace and the sense of possibility is truly wonderful.

What scared me more than divorce was the thought of waking up in ten years' time with the same old feelings of loneliness and unfulfilment.

Go and find a better life. So what about the house - it's just a house. I've had a few flings since my ex, and the excitement and the physical adventure, the feelings of being touched and wanted again, brought me back from the near-dead.

I don't know about you, but I'd rather be single forever than live like that again.

With kindness OP your children need to know the truth. Why should you shoulder the burdens and be made to be the one in the wrong.

if it were me I’d write it all out and send it to them, they can read, digest, and read some more. It will also stop them shouting you down if you were to try and tell them face to face.

id think it’s likely they’ve probably got an inkling anyway.

your dream life is only a dream life if it’s working for you and you are enjoying it.