Neurodivergent husband has brought me to my knees, am I unreasonable to leave him ?

[MyNextSteps]

This is my first Mumsnet post so I'm sorry but this will be a long rant. But I have really lost my way and would appreciate everyone's thoughts.

My husband and I are in our late 50s and have been married for 25 years and have 5 kids who are late teens/20s.

The marriage has always had something "not quite right", something missing which I couldn't explain. DH didn't have many girlfriends I thought he was just shy. Once married I always felt he was avoidant, pulling away, preoccupied, unavailable, never initiated sex. If I ever tried to raise it, even gently, he was irritable and defensive, saying my "constant criticism and oversensitivity" was the problem and then he'd try to run away or hang up the phone or get busy or fall asleep or get one of the kids to interrupt us to shut me down. He is also very interested in facts not feelings and tends to disconnect from conversations once he's satisfied himself of the facts.

Eventually I dragged DH to therapy wondering if he was a covert narcissist but this year he's been diagnosed with High Functioning Autism Level 1 (Aspergers) which explains everything. I feel I'm in a nightmare as our story started out as a fairytale with our beautiful kids but now I'm acceptingw nothing will change with DH.

We both had good careers but I stayed at home to raise the kids. He worked hard to provide for us all but had a long commute. We moved out to the coast and bought a rambling old house with land, did it up and we have a small holding with animals. DH seemed to avoid intimacy but I didn't question it as he was tired and working so hard and so was I. He never took me out in the evening or hired a babysitter or took me away for a few nights. We only ever went away with the kids but I was so in the tunnel of parenthood and we didn't have much money to spare so I didn't really stop to question it.

Gradually the kids grew up and then DH stopped work and I thought we would spend more time together but I gradually realized he wasn't interested. Once he stopped work and was around 24/7 and the kids were grown up, it dawned on me that he was just making excuses to avoid time with me and avoid intimacy.

We did years of marriage therapy but he could neither express his feelings at all (alexithymia) or understand mine. He just cannot hear me - all he can hear is that he's being criticized and then he becomes a professional victim. I have given him a million chances to sort himself out, so many times we have fought and he always comes back, says sorry but nothing changes. Our therapist said he wouldn't change and to leave him as he wasn't able or interested in meeting my needs.

Some of the worst family fights have been when I have been angry with DH and then he goes to the kids and portrays himself as a victim and me as the perpetrator. Then the kids (who are angry he's so weak) stand up for him. So I'm then fighting my own kids and he sits there with his head in his hands not speaking while it all kicks off between me and the kids.

So there have been times when the kids have seen me as the aggressive bad cop whilst he is good cop being their friend as he does everything for them, drives them around, gives them money and never sets rules or boundaries. Mum "wears the trousers" and keeps it all fair and accountable. Although the kids hate on me for being bad cop I notice when life gets tricky they all come running to me for guidance because I'm actually the only real parent.

Every time the whole family gets together which is now only about twice a year I work hard to cook food and make it nice but either my husband or one of the ND kids has a meltdown or shutdown which ruins the occasion and the family doesn't speak for months, I am beginning to dread get togethers.

Now his daily routine is to get up feeling anxious and then just drift around for the rest of the day, no plan, no goals, achieving not much, never gets together with friends, sometimes hangs with his family (many of them have the same issues as him) low functioning, wears same clothes for days. If I ask him to do something he'll do it eventually but then says I'm bossy and that he feels "controlled" and then makes sure the kids know it.

Some of our kids have various neurodiverse traits/issues and DH and I clashed seriously about how to raise them because as a ND himself his first instinct was to deny their problems and help them to mask whereas I as an NT wanted to get them diagnosed and get them help. DH also insisted that we don't mention anyone's diagnosis in the family (shame) so when several of the kids have huge meltdowns we are not allowed to address it with the other kids and I can see that they feel guilty and responsible when it's not their fault.

Things have come to a head in the last few months. DH was being assessed for suspected cancer. He wasn't able to process many feelings about that beyond being sure he didn't want the kids to know. I did all the worrying and supporting whilst he looked blank and numb all through Christmas. Finally this week he got the "all clear", he did express some relief but I was hugely emotional after the hospital.

The same night one of our kids rang up and shouted at me because she'd given a message to DH for me to do something but he hadn't passed it on to me so I hadn't done what she needed me to do. I was still emotional from the hospital so after she'd put the phone down I was angry with DH that he hadn't passed on the message. He denied this so we started to argue. DH then portrayed himself a a victim in front of one of our sons who got aggressive with me and goaded and shoved me (he's 6 ft) and started being verbally abusive and telling me I was crazy (he didn't know about the hospital or cancer scare at all so didn't know why I was so emotional). I said to DH "tell him to stop" but DH said "why should he stop abusing you when you abuse me ?" (professional victim).

In that moment after 25 years something snapped in me. I did something I've never done before. I calmly put together a small bag of clothes and walked out. I drove off and checked into a local B&B where I am sitting now with no idea about my next move.

DH has brought me to my knees. It's not what he does, it's what he DOESN'T do, he's just absent from our marriage. He doesn't want me to leave but he doesn't want to have a relationship with me either. He just wants a housekeeper/secretary/organizer/mother not a wife. I want to leave him but then I break up the family, we lose our lovely home and I get blamed for that by him and the kids, I lose my smallholding and animals and will have to give up my dream part time job that I have taken up in the last few years too, so essentially I lose my entire life as it is currently.

I rang DH from the B&B to discuss the issues. He said "all you do is criticize me, I'm a victim" and hung up. He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do. He then said by the way if I was moving out then he'd sell our home and small holding because he wasn't interested in it anyway he only bought it for me (first I heard about that, he was the one that insisted we buy it when I wanted to stay in the city !). I went back briefly to our home to collect clothes etc and he was just lying flat on the sofa staring into space, washing left in the machine overnight, last night's dinner still on the table untouched, curtains not drawn, animals not fed, plants not watered, post not opened etc.

AIBU to leave and break up the family and sell our family home and smallholding and rehome the animals ? Or am I overreacting and should I accept he can't change, stop asking him to and just suck it up for the sake of the family ? DH is not a bad person, we have a lot in common with our joint kids, life and animals. He worked hard to support us all, he's never been unfaithful or had addictions or been abusive (contrast I've been a drunk and screaming harridan more than once when pushed beyond human limits by rigid and goading ND family members). I am also nearly 60 and have let myself go with all the stress. Dating now fills me with horror, what are my chances anyway and my friends are having horror stories on Bumble.... I would also have to go back to full time work at 60 to support myself and the children would be hostile to a new partner as they feel responsible for their victim dad. But he is not my husband or lover and he's more friends with the kids than a father to them. He is a professional victim and he has no capacity for a marriage or partnership with me. I would be happy to live alone but I keep having the sad thought that I don't want to get to the end of my life without having experienced a true and loving partnership.

If I could find a way to stay with DH I would but I have tried to compromise a million times. I don't want to have an affair either but it seems that if I stay I would have to completely deny my own needs for love, support, intimacy, boundaries, joint parenting, joy etc and life is too short for that. Advice please.

Give him what he wants. No more ‘abuse and control’ by you.
The timing is right. It’s so common to split when the children are raised to adults and the parents realise they don’t want to be together any more.

Concentrate on the practicalities now. The children will cope. Am assuming they’ve all moved out now.

Can you manage in a small local place with your part time job until retirement?

Bit worrying that you are keen to go out and find a new one to fill the gap. That’s not the wisest thing to be focussing on now. That was your marriage. It wasn’t all terrible if you were able to raise your large family together. You can’t go backwards and try and fix the past though.

You don’t need to spend all this time trying to analyse him. You already know he’s not right for you any more. You can have a new future though. Man or no man.

I don't think I'm wrong

Autism isn't an explanation for shitty behaviour. It might be the reason be can't cope with some things but he is capable of rational thought, of holding down a job, by the sounds of it

Op deserves someone who knows what he wants and wants to be a husband. This man doesn't.

Why did you choose to marry someone whose inate behaviours you don't like?

I think I’d encourage him to be honest with them and if they asked me directly I wouldn’t lie, but I don’t think I’d focus on this. I’d be focussing on getting myself out of the relationship so these things aren’t an issue rather than trying to explain what’s happened so far and why.

If you tell them when he doesn’t want you to you’re playing into his victim mentality-just get yourself out.

This ^

You do what you need to do to survive. There’s no positive in your post really towards your marriage at all. From what you’ve said it seems like your husband has zero affection or love for you to be honest… I will add I did wonder if he could be gay. It seems very odd to me for a man to be so repulsed by someone over such a long period of time and especially the sex. Wish you lots of luck op xxxx

This consider it the first day of the rest of your life. I’d even type up your OP and email it to your children but with a - this is what I have dealt with and I’m leaving I can’t do this anymore. You are all welcome to have an adult relationship with me / but I’m sick of being Gaslit by people. I’ve had 25 years plus of abuse and I’m out.

It’s good that you’re away in a b&b. Are you UK as the timings of your posts last night you got no sleep, so if you can stay a few days to give you the chance to relax a bit, it will take a lot longer than that before you start to heal.

You also should start to make a plan :
Do you want to stay in the area or move back to the city
What sort of work can you do.
once the smallholding is sold what can you afford with your share and will you need a mortgage.
Get the financials together, as you reduced your work to care for the dc you will be entitled to more than I think he will consider fair so get a good solicitor.

once you’ve sorted the life admin and essentials start focusing on you. Not a new relationship, if that happens so be it and it’ll be lovely but don’t go looking until you’ve had time to remember who you are. Start socialising with whatever hobbies you have long forgotten that you enjoy.

finally start being honest with your dc. You not sharing things with them is allowing him to permanently paint you as the bad guy.

💐

I agree with PP who suggested you write it all down in a letter. Write the list of things you've put up with and why this has to stop now.
I don't think it's out of order to then share this with the kids, if they ask why you are leaving. You can just say "health scare" or something if you don't want to say cancer.
And I'd write to him too.
Spell out his behaviour to him in no uncertain terms. The stress of what you described is off the charts.
And then go and see a lawyer. I know this isn't your dream but you could live for another 30 years so you can't keep in this unhappy marriage

I know leaving is scary op but the other choice is another 20 or more years like this and it will destroy you. How dare your DS square up to you!

Can you stay in the same area to keep your job?

It all sounds so toxic and I was open mouthed reading your OP. He sounds awful. Truly awful. ND doesn't give people the right to act like total dicks.

You have two options - stay and live the rest of your life like this as you know full well nothing's going to change or leave and start again (would you really have to work full time with equity from the house etc?)
Both options are hard but you need to choose your hard. At least of you leave there's a chance of freedom and future happiness.
And I wouldn't even try to help this man any more.

The thing that stands out at me the most is that he did nothing whilst your adult son pushed you around 😳 that's properly disgusting.

I think differently. Personality disorders are usually caused by childhood trauma and most autistic people experience trauma in childhood so there are a lot of autistic people who are also narcissists. I don't think we're more likely to be narcs exactly, just that we're more likely to have experienced trauma. My father was a typical grandiose narcissist and clearly also autistic so I am biased by my own experince. He was very much like op's husband.

I agree very much with your last sentence, the manipulation and not trying is not the autism! We find it hard to change but we are more than capable of it if we care enough to try!

I read this completely differently to everyone else. It sounds like you are not compatible at all, but I don't see anything terrible that your DH has done.

I think you are trying to get him to live as a neuro-typical person, which is not achievable. It is probably the case that in some ways he is better able to understand your DCs if they are ND too.

I agree that op has described covert narcissism to the letter. I can also see autistic traits but this doesn’t answer why he manipulates so heavily, that is a choice and likely linked to NPD. The issue is op’s dh can’t really change either. The narcissism is invisible to the person with the disorder. Op could scream until she is blue in the face that he turns every single thing into victimhood, but it won’t stop him doing it. He will just blame her for upsetting him.

It is an impossible situation.

Ops children may well, given their own neurodiversity, naturally lean towards siding and protecting their ‘victim’ father as they understand his disabilities and limitations very well. Better than most. They will also suffer overwhelm with arguments and tension very quickly.

Op needs to leave. The children are adults and she has suffered enough.

Report your son to the police. If he's willing to shove his own mother, he will do it to other women. He needs to have some consequences for this.

I have read your posts OP and having been in a similar situation (minus the XH diagnosis) and now I am free, divorced and have rebuilt my life.

You will be fine, you will need to surround yourself with supportive people, have some serious counselling and recognise you cannot change your husband.

"He didn't want to discuss the issues because he can't summarize or express his feelings. He says he can't change and I am persecuting him to do things he can't do."

That's right though, isn't it?

You ARE pushing him to be someone he cannot be and he experiences that as traumatic just as much as you experience his absence from decision making and stepping up to daily life frustrating and distressing.

Reading your OP your frustration and lack of respect for your DH shines out. It may be entirely justified, I don't know, but I do know that screaming at an autistic person isn't going to make them stop being autistic. You are literally pissing in the wind. Once the respect has gone the relationship is dead in the water imo. Of course you have to separate.

If you live on a rambling small holding is there no way to set both of you up within it? Living separately?

Agree with this. Cut this off at the head now and stop feeling so bad about it. A lot of people would have been gone ages ago. You have tried so so hard but please now put yourself first, get out and heal and seek a life that supports you.

I’m with you.

He hadn’t done anything which is the issue the op doesn’t like and she doesn’t sound as if she is blaming him for incompatibility and quite argumentative.It sounds op as if you knew ages ago but liked what his salary provided.He is himself, you are you and you’ve said you’re not compatible. Move on. Both of you will hopefully find somebody far more suitable if you don’t such is life. It isn’t necessary to have a partner to be happy.

@MyNextSteps think practically about the animals. Regardless of what you decide you may want to rehome the larger ones so you are less tied. You can take any domestic animals with you if you decide to relocate. You’re only in your 50s - please don’t waste any more of your precious life on this parasite.

Maybe have a look at the drama triangle? It seems husband has set himself up victim with you and persecutor and the kids in the rescuer role.

you need to step away altogether, I think at least initially you’ll probably cop some some flack from the kids about leaving but honestly fuck them, they don’t get to tell you how to live when they’re not interested in trying to understand either. And how dare your son push you around like that. I don’t think this has been a happy home for anyone for years.

You are somewhat gliding over the violence, you are minimising the fact her dh is setting the children against her rather than talking through the issues. You are also failing to see the manipulation and coercive behaviour.

Screaming is what people do when they have had enough. Decades of trying to save her marriage.

I agree they are entirely incompatible. I don’t know how she is stayed in a loveless, sexless marriage for so long - but for most people this would be unacceptable, and for most people they would have left long before now.

Obviously it was hidden by his masking, and no doubt love bombing at the beginning. She had no idea what she was getting into. Once children have arrived, it’s even harder.

Op has done all she can. This man is not capable of a normal, healthy relationship and I hope in time someone will give her the love and affection she deserves.

Again, that was your experience, which is not universal. 1) people without autism can be abusive assholes, and 2) people with autism can be loving partners. Equating autism with being a terrible partner is disablist and offensive. What you went through is terrible, and shouldn't happen to anyone. It is also true that many partners cannot prioritise their spouse, even occasionally, even the NT ones,

I’m sorry you’re going through this, OP. It’s good to see you’ve received so
much support.

I thought there was something off about your children all seeming to be on your husband’s side and then I read the single line about you being drunk and shouty because of the ND members of your family.
You’re obviously not in control when you’re drunk, and it sounds like it happened often enough? Could they thought you were being abusive instead of seeing that you were struggling? Could this be why the kids thinking their dad needs protection? It’s not right to be pushed by anyone, least of all by your kid. I’m really sorry that happened.
Could you sit and chat with an older one ( ones)?

I agree. My ex likely autistic, never diagnosed is very narcissistic (thrives on conflict and delights in triggering his targets - usually female). He is charming but also has low self esteem and takes slights by women very personally and would plot to get back at them - usually through gossip, sending them mass emails etc.

As a kid, his mother hit him so much to get him to comply that people who knew him as a child still remember witnessing all the slaps today. She thought she was being a good mum and that’s what parents were expected to do back then and she would have been harshly judged by others based on the behaviour of her child. Unfortunately, I believe it messed with his mind and he would have had a much better outcome through an early intervention program.