Tony Blair says we need a national conversation about MH as its costing too much

[B0xes]

Tony Blair said recently on Jimmy's Jobs of the Future Podcast (clip available on youtube) that we need to have a national conversation about mental health. Why are we spending so much on it. Why are people self diagnosing. He believes people are being encouraged to view everyday challenges we all face as mental health issues.

Is he being unreasonable? In one sense, I'm inclined to agree to an extent, in the other, I believe he led the charge for so many of the social changes that have made us less resilient and many of these issues are due to individualism which led to atomisation and loneliness and being encouraged to see the market as the entity that fulfills our needs rather than strong families and robust social networks.

YABU - Blair can do one.

YANBU - He might have a point

Oh i didn't notice I'd done that, sorry 😂

I don't understand why you're explaining this to me. The people I'm talking about aren't severe enough for inpatient care. I'm talking about the less severe who live in the community. I've also worked in one of the old asylums and was a patient there myself once.

Surprised at the amount of people who think there was better access to support and resources in the past. My understanding is that there was hardly any recognition of mental health issues at all. People would have been far more likely to minimise mental health problems for fear of being institutionalised.

To my mind this is not a story of underfunding having broken something that worked. Rather, mental health has been historically swept under the carpet and now that there is some recognition of it there is a clamour for services which don’t meet the burgeoning demand. Happy to hear from others with first hand experience to the contrary.

But on Tony Blair, I have to say I think he’s got a point. You only have to look at the magistrates court - pretty much everyone pleads poor mental health and what do you know, they barely get a slap on the wrist because ‘it would only make things worse for them’. Well good. Maybe if things get really shit for a bit they will reconsider their life choices.

Well, it's not like we have prisons to put them in after the under-investment there either, is it?
So you have poor people with depression, who drink and do drugs to self medicate, then steal to get the money to drink and do drugs because they can't get work and then we pay for them to be locked up.
What a world.

This times a million.

Trust me when I say they don’t (learn). They just end up bloody worse. I don’t know what the answer is but prison isn’t. It just makes things worse.

I watch American cop videos on YouTube. They wear body worn cameras and virtually all the people they arrest (mostly drunk drivers) scream mental health difficulties when they're in handcuffs. When everyone's doing it, it's extremely difficult to identify the genuine ones.

PIP is about encouraging disabled people to participate in society by levelling the playing field with a monthly allowance, the level of which depends on how the individual is affected on a daily basis. That allowance is paid to go some way towards the sometimes eye watering extra costs of living with a disability. If your train of thought is as you’ve posted here then you’ve completely misunderstood the purpose of PIP.

I’m not suggesting prison - that’s very rare in magistrates. But I am sure the person they wielded a knife at/ exposed themselves to/ stole from would prefer they got a meaningful amount of fine/community service etc. If people can only be properly punished for a crime if they committed it in an excellent state of mind then honestly, let’s all just go home.

Many people live in poverty and many of those struggle with mental health. Very few commit crime because of it and those who do need both help for the underlying causes AND to be held accountable.

If Tony Blair had wanted to help, how about trying to put together employers willing to create some kind of scheme to help people slowly trying to re-engage with work?

Things weren't better in the past - my mum spent years of her life zombiefied on Valium after a post partum suicide attempt in the late 70s - but hey, at least in the good old days there wasn't as much pressure for her to get back to work!

This is one of the most miserable ( won't use the word " depressing" for fear of self diagnosing) threads I have read. Our living standards, as a country, have plummeted over the last few years. Everyone is feeling worse off in one-way or another and many have resorted to a good old fashioned populist blame the vulnerable game. What difference does it make to your life if someone is unwell or not? Why do you care? We had all this with Osbourne and austerity. All that bollocks about benefit fraud. It was all crap and all it achieved was stigmatising anyone who claimed benefits, most of whom were in work. It's just horrible and divisive. And actually ditracts from the real issues that need money throwing at them to solve.

Yet nearly all that commit crime have poor mental health and suffer poverty.
Just because the majority don't become criminals doesn't change the fact you are more likely to turn to crime if you have poor MH and poverty. Crime levels go up again when addictions are added in. Addictions increase with poor MH...

Restorative justice has better long term results than imprisonment anyway.

I don’t agree that nearly all who commit the kind of minor crimes that end up on magistrates are in poverty. Yes, there are the drug addict shoplifters who are stuck in a cycle of addiction and barely had a start in life, but there are also plenty of jaguar drivers who have been caught speeding AGAIN, plenty of sexually motivated crimes across the economic spectrum, some white collar crime against employers etc. All just as likely to plead mental health as a mitigating factor.

Restorative justice is great, there is a time and place for it. There is also a time and place for reminding people that the law is the law and if they fuck about they will find out.

Why are you being so nasty towards someone who has suffered and has worked hard to overcome so much. Why can’t you use this as inspirational?

I think mental ill health is as common as physical ill health across the lifecycle and across the range from mild to severe and is part of the human condition. I think social support that chooses to exceed a basic safety net is a wonderful human attempt to address inequality, but is doomed to become a maintaining factor for illness.
Stigma was a cruel societal driver of resilience. Community, on the other hand, when at it's best, was a compassionate and flexible driver of opportunity and care, even justice and restitution - communities that always found a role for everyone to play, that stepped in at times of crisis, that insured against loneliness and provided resources. I think the state should support us to build community, not try to replace that community. It should be a good parent, with high expectations and high regard, not neglectful, helicoptering or authoritarian.
But we are doomed to keep developing and keep failing.

Hopefully this government will fund the Courts systems then, because they are also experiencing huge delays due to under-investment...

Yes, hopefully!

The poster you are defending has been really nasty to the poster you are attacking. So much so they have had one of their comments removed by MN.
I would certainly struggle to find someone so nasty inspirational

Indeed, those who wish to be inspirational don't tend to do it by sneering at, discounting and belittling others.

I have the greatest respect for those that overcome adversity of any kind, and those that do inspire tend to recognise that everyone is different and faces unique challenges. There is a humble quality about them that also acknowledges that things can change in an instant no matter how resilient one is or how hard you try to safeguard yourself from the negative mental health aspects of traumatic and unwanted circumstances that are often beyond one's control.

The phrase "empty vessels make the most noise" comes to mind sometimes.

Of course not all of them and not everywhere. I was making a reference to generational norms and trauma.

The statistics of those out of work and on disability is not “everyone” now either.

We aren't spending nearly enough on mental health. Better services would result in better outcomes, but we do not invest enough, and that is what needs looking at.

I am glad we are talking more about MH conditions, but it upsets me that we are only really talking about the more 'acceptable' ones.

My husband is recovering from psychosis and cognitive impairments are a part of his illness. He was recently discharged from a long hospital stay and has been seen once since discharge. I have been the one to help his recovery and to keep an eye on him and his risk etc. To figure out how to help him work around the cognitive impairments that impact his daily functioning. I am the one who has had to sort out the fuck up of his medication when mistakes were made three times. Thankfully, I am a MH professional myself so I have a good understanding, but it shouldn't be down to me alone, which in turn has impacted my ability to work.

Oh and my husband is the most resilient person ive ever met.

The fact is, there is very little out there and the more complex the person's condition the less support that is available.

We do need a national conversation, we need to discuss how people with severe and enduring MH conditions are failed every day. How carers are left to pick up the pieces and how those without carers are basically fucked. Also, can we discuss how impatient stays can cause more trauma and are basically a holding pen until meds stabilise?

Why aren't we having these conversations? Maybe Tony Blair needs to look at this.

I have probably gone onto a different subject, but I guess I needed a rant.

Please do re read what was written to me and evaluate the tone. I am not all nasty, just frustrated with the lack of resilience amongst many young people today and the parents who write things like 'woopy-do for you' and 'awww aren't you good' or whatever the hell it was that they put that sounds like a recalcitrant teenager writing. I have been factual and concise but not nasty.

She is inspirational for what she has overcome and achieved inspite of difficulties she has faced. Yes one of her comments was deleted (I didn’t see it) but there does seem to be a lot of anger directed at her for doing well now.

I haven't been nasty and I have no idea why the post referring to that posters attitude was removed. Who on earth writes 'woopy doo for you' and starts a post with 'aww...' then launches into an attack and then expects to be taken seriously?

I take it you didn’t see the comments she made towards my daughter, son and others struggling like them who have worked hard to overcome so much- without 10 years of therapy( or as is often the case now any therapy).

Mental health battles are not a one size fits all.

The anger is because of how she is treating others.
MistressofTheDarkSide's post puts it perfectly.
There seems to be a complete lack of understanding that some people are so sick they can't just 'get on with it'.
I certainly don't find people like her inspirational, I find her sneering with a superior attitude. Perhaps she is coming across the wrong way in her posts who knows.