Tony Blair says we need a national conversation about MH as its costing too much

[B0xes]

Tony Blair said recently on Jimmy's Jobs of the Future Podcast (clip available on youtube) that we need to have a national conversation about mental health. Why are we spending so much on it. Why are people self diagnosing. He believes people are being encouraged to view everyday challenges we all face as mental health issues.

Is he being unreasonable? In one sense, I'm inclined to agree to an extent, in the other, I believe he led the charge for so many of the social changes that have made us less resilient and many of these issues are due to individualism which led to atomisation and loneliness and being encouraged to see the market as the entity that fulfills our needs rather than strong families and robust social networks.

YABU - Blair can do one.

YANBU - He might have a point

Lots of people with physical health problems do not get PIP and work

Yes but I'm talking about people who claim they're too anxious to leave the house, and there are many people who are realising they can make a claim as long as they state they need support for all tasks.

Because ADHD and mental health issues for that matter impact your executive function. Some people can't get out of bed. Some can't start tasks. Some can't finish tasks. Some can't wash themselves or feed themselves. Some forget to eat and drink. It's not "sitting on their arse", it's being disabled by their disability.

PIP payments are there for people to autonomously choose how best to purchase services, products or facilities in order to assist them with their disability. Receiving PIP and spending the money does not suddenly make you not disabled. It might abate a lot of troubles you have with your disability but it doesn't suddenly mean if you need a lot of time to rest after interactions or if you don't think there's anything worth waking up for that those issues will be solved.

Let's replace mentally ill people with old people in your post

Would that be OK in your eyes?

1. We cannot afford the number of people that are not working due to old age.

2.we also probably cannot afford to run the health system in the way we've become accustomed to - it will need some hard conversations around what constitutes essential care.

We could withdraw all healthcare from elderly people that aren't working, that would save us loads! Brilliant! I mean surely it isn't essential to keep elderly people alive when they aren't working and costing us money in the benefits that are pensions right? Just like yoi think it isn't essential to keep mentally ill people alive.

(I am of course not being serious and I do not think care should be withdrawn from elderly people, neither do I think it should be withdrawn from mentally ill people -archaic thinking)

My own personal mental health would be vastly improved if I never had to hear an opinion of Tony Blair's ever again

I am on benefits and it still amounts to well under NMW.

The people people getting more are either in high rent areas, or have disabled children. If you are a single person with disabilities, you will not be taking in more than £20k.

Yes, my point was that on this thread there have been people saying that benefits for MH should be time limited.

Unless a protected characteristic is involved.

Well it would likely involve a long term plan of training more professionals, recruiting more and contracts with private providers. Not ideal, but better than millions of people spending a lifetime on benefits and worse a lifetime of sitting on the sofa too scared to leave the house- this will only lead to further mental AND physical problems, higher demand on the NHS and making no positive contribution to society.

And if someone can not do a job in spite of reasonable adjustments, you can let them go.

Yes but you'll also get free dentist, council tax reductions or an exemption and many other savings that most of us don't get access to.

Plus 20k per person is a lot of money for taxpayers to shell out when millions are on benefits.

And how would the time scale be worked out? You only get 6 months, then you are booted off of benefits?

Or maybe we are seeing the fallout of years of

• social media and smartphone use
• lack of mental health support including CAMHS
• failing NHS - long waiting times for physical health issues leads to mental health issues
• over concern about safety leading to helicopter parenting, limiting the life experiences and skill development of children and young people

Along with all of us having lived through a pandemic which has left millions with long Covid, and the impact of covid and lockdowns has impacted the mental health particularly of young people who had their development stalled.

@NotVeryFunny I agree with you wholeheartedly. I would add to your list that. we are also witnessing the impact of

. allowing manufacturing/textile jobs abroad depriving people of work
. the rise of zero hour contracts
. a school curriculum, which is not delivering the skills that young people need for the world they are entering

It is all a catalyse for some people finding it extremely hard to cope. That being said I think it is appropriate to have the conversation about what can we do because I do not think providing extra monetary benefits is the answer, neither is simply removing the additional payments and expecting people to get back into work.

It would depend on the individual case. Far better than giving every person PIP when as far as i can tell there's no reason they need it. What do they need extra money for if they're sat on their sofa all day too scared to leave the house.

Young people get a far lower minimum wage. So yes if you are 18, you can nearly as much on benefits as working a NMW job

There is no therapy .My dd has adhd, asc and other MH diagnoses. She gets pip and is on a waiting list for therapy, she has a support worker whilst she waits. Soooo many people are being kept from the professional help they need. It’s not a given that the therapy she needs will get her into work but until she has it we don’t know so we wait. She is bright girl and has been let down her whole life. Late diagnosis for everything, late EHCP. She has spent most of her teenage years in and out of hospital. She has tried to take her own life several times. I truly believe if she’d had her diagnosis, EHCp and the support she needs earlier she’d be at uni now. She hates this life. It’s heartbreaking for me. We both work full time and have two very ill autistic/ adhd children.

The idea that all mentally ill teens on benefits have families out of work milking the system is abhorrent. I am supported by a charity and the forums are full of broken hearted parents battling for treatment, trying to keep their kids alive whilst trying to hold on to their jobs.

MN is such a horrible place now. It used to be such a supportive environment. I really hope you don’t end up in our position, it’s hell and you don’t see it coming.

I would much rather be paying full price for everything than having to suffer through ill health (mental or physical) that is so debilitating I cannot work. Disgusting ableism around in this thread.
Maybe one day you will be treated to all these 'benefits' because you are ill. I actually hope so, because then you will see it isn't the utopia you seem to think it is! (No, I do not claim benefits before you ask, I work full time and always have)

The point is if so much money wasn't wasted on PIP, that could be spent on paying and training therapists.

I don't get free dentistry. I have had to pay to go private because there are no NHS dentists anymore. I can only afford to have teeth out. I know look like a junkie despite not touching drugs.
I paid full rate CT for years, as I lacked the know how to apply for exemption. Even now, it is only 80% off. Some councils are looking into abolishing the reduction.
Prescriptions? Anyone can pay £10 and get them for nothing. Mine will cost me over £50 per week if I did pay.
What else is there? I don't have kids so free meals etc don't apply.

That's very true.

Also reasonable adjustments are seen as other team members having to cover/taken on extra when MH sufferer is not delivering on a regular basis and managers can't do anything so not to be told they are disability discriminating. Or employees taking sick leave policy like an additional holiday entitlement. Not many businesses can afford it. With new Labour policies it's going to be much worse.
The issue is that these piss takers take those limited resources/opportunities from genuine cases.

No they didn’t

Who said it's utopia?! But the point is that if people are claiming PIP because of "anxiety" we can't just sit back and say okay that's fine, here's 20k a year for the rest of your lifetime. We need to think of solutions, such as targeted support not just throwing money at people to sit and do nothing.

On a side note I've seen the vitriol towards unemployed autistic adults for being "lazy" "waste of space" making excuses so they can't work" but many of them are going on job interviews almost every day but no employer wants them because most employers want someone who is "a people person " "confident and chatty"etc.

So why would they want to hire an autist who struggles with all of that and cannot even make eye contact or understand social cues. Give autistic people a break it's disheartening enough all the job interview rejections and then they have to put up with people calling them lazy, scroungers, and fakers.

You sound like the person on here who asked why someone with anorexia would need benefits as they "have no food costs".

@Gfre654 CMHT teams have support to help people into work. It is very gentle and helpful. You have to be under CMHT which it sounds like your DD will be. Resources for people ill enough to be under CMHT have been cut because resources are now spread so thinly.