Tony Blair says we need a national conversation about MH as its costing too much

[B0xes]

Tony Blair said recently on Jimmy's Jobs of the Future Podcast (clip available on youtube) that we need to have a national conversation about mental health. Why are we spending so much on it. Why are people self diagnosing. He believes people are being encouraged to view everyday challenges we all face as mental health issues.

Is he being unreasonable? In one sense, I'm inclined to agree to an extent, in the other, I believe he led the charge for so many of the social changes that have made us less resilient and many of these issues are due to individualism which led to atomisation and loneliness and being encouraged to see the market as the entity that fulfills our needs rather than strong families and robust social networks.

YABU - Blair can do one.

YANBU - He might have a point

I have no axe to grind as I neither have ASD or ADHD nor do I parent a child with a diagnosis nor am I in a relationship with someone with a diagnosis. I have noticed, on this thread, people like you seem to desperate to gatekeep. “Oh this is a real diagnosis, mine is real and yours is not.” I have a long term physical health condition and it’s severe. I an on Facebook groups and I don’t suggest those who lesser symptoms than me are less valid. If someone has a diagnosis by a professional, they have a diagnosis. With the rare exception of a few unethical private providers, a diagnosis is made by a professional and shouldn’t be questioned by a lay person.

As someone who was diagnosed with ADHD at 59. I didn’t cope with life. I had been out of regular employment for decades.

This isn’t about not being able to concentrate on boring stuff. It’s about not being able to concentrate on anything unless it sparks an interest and then you can’t stop.

Great you have a son who was diagnosed as a child

Given females present differently than little boys who run around and can’t sit still.

Those symptoms haven’t been at the fore front of peoples knowledge on ADHD. Imagine this was 10 or 20 years ago and you had a girl instead of a boy and you would struggle to put your finger on what exactly was wrong and probably get dismissed that your dd was just being lazy or distracted

So how could you have been armchair diagnosed with ADHD as a female if no one knew the symptoms

kindly piss off with that attitude. My son has asd/adhd/anxiety and depression. He has worked DAMN hard against the odds and is now in his final year of uni currently sitting with a first class honours degree. He battles against his conditions and is one of the bravest young men I know.
You haven’t got a clue how hard lots of people fight against their conditions

Nothing, I suppose. That’s why I’m just sharing my opinion, which you’re free to agree or disagree with.
But my stepson, who lived with me and his dad from the age of 8 and had a perfectly nice, normal life doing nice, normal things, got good GCSEs and A Levels, went to university and ended up with a degree, had a great group of friends who he got on well with, had zero difficulties whatsoever has just been diagnosed with ADHD and is now on medication and ‘unable to work’. This, despite the psychiatrist sending us a questionnaire to fill in and us telling them there were no concerns as a child or teen. And funnily enough, he reports that medication doesn’t really seem to be doing anything. I wonder why…
Yes, it frustrates me, because it makes life harder for my actual ADHD child, having to justify his difficulties.

A lot of mental health issues have come from fighting those two world wars. Read up on generational trauma.

You don’t know anyone who has been prescribed medication for anxiety? (Anxiety goes hand in hand with autism).

You’ve never heard of peer-support, autism specific groups? Really?!

This is quite a sanctimonious comment . Have you experienced any of these yourself?

Even people who take positive actions to improve their MH eg exercise, good sleep, good food, no drink/drugs require something else (they have a chemical imbalance !)

Is it a benefit? Is it money from the state ?

If PIP means no money-direct or indirect- is given to the claimant from the state than that needs to be widely known.

100%

Reminds me of a poster a few months back here who had her DM looking after her 2yo. Granny told the girl "don't be silly" and poster was in pieces because Granny (providing free childcare btw) traumatised the toddler by invalidating her feelings and said toddler might need phycologist's help in later life.
This poster was widely supported in her views.

I’m not talking about that generation. There are very few people alive that have fought in WW2. It would be understandable for them to have major PTSD

As I said, very few people have genuine mental health issues. Consequently very few people end up being sectioned.

I'm not talking about anxiety

There are support groups which I'm aware of. But in my experience, they're inaccessible

I’m sorry for your loss. 💐
That was a ridiculous and untrue comment from that poster. There’s nothing wrong with seeking talking therapies / support for things like job loss, redundancy or divorce etc. I’d argue it makes you more resilient to recognise you need to talk and work through it. You’re not self diagnosing a mental ilnesss. You’re saying “this normal life experience is hard and I want to talk to someone who isn’t a friend or family members”. That’s a healthy, positive response. I hope you do seek any help where you need it, you deserve that.

Believe me, people with ADHD get fed up with those reels too. Not everything is a symptom.

And a lot of people, particularly women, are getting diagnosed as adults as the diagnostic process (for ASD too) has been set up for typical male presentation. Females also mask more, because of expectations on girls/women on how to act and present themselves.

Also, a lot of women that have been previously diagnosed with BPD/EUPD are finding that they actually have ASD (and sometimes ADHD too).

I don't think you really understand ADHD. Some one with it can focus for hours on something that interests them, but often to the detriment of eating, chores etc.

The fear of the stopping of PIP for the shirkers and clutch-graspers really is showing 😅
its a bloody out of work benefit if 5/6 claimants aren’t working ! My gosh.

You don't know what generational trauma means. The point is, it is passed down through generations, and affects people who were nothing to do with the original event.

But we are evolved to withstand generational trauma. It is a part of us! Human history is littered with awful tragedies and difficulties. Just look at the mortality rates from a few centuries ago, especially those for child mortality. Many if us would struggle to imagine how truly awful it would be to lose so many people including potentially multiple children. Look at the terrible famines we have endured around the world. Look at the plagues that have ripped through the population. Look at the wars that have raged.

Dc secondary has a wellbeing hub. In assembly this year the headteacher told the pupils not to lean on too much on it. Ds's classmate runs there straight away if they are given a more challenging task to do.

I got diagnosed with severe mental health condition in my early twenties. Despite that and feeling dreadful all the time I managed to do PhD. I was hospitalised four times during it but giving up was not an option for me. I try to teach resilience to my dc by encouraging them to finish tasks even though you feel you want to give up.

I think one significant problem might be the view of what is normal / to be tolerated has become much narrower.

In pursuit of everyone being more accountable and scientific; auditing, monitoring and subsequently testing, increases. Subsequently workload increases so many in their professional roles are overloaded and overwhelmed and less able to tolerate behaviours from others and their own feelings which might not be conducive to that work.

This causes what is considered to be normal / to be tolerated from our lives and from others to become narrower as people have less energy to tolerate behaviours from others or situations that are challenging to them.

The challenges are real. The difficulty people have in overcoming them is real. Toleration and compassion for others from all parties helps but is made difficult in a context of open hostility.

Open hostility makes people feel even worse. They either become defensive in order to demonstrate to themselves and others why they absolutely need provision. However this results in taking the focus away from any abilities and skills which they do possess which could be developed to help them cope. Or they give up and begin to believe they are somehow so dysfunctional that there is no hope for them.

He's been out of office for almost 20 years - who do you think is responsible for the state of the NHS since then?

Another thing people seem to do is over exaggerate any challenge in order to validate their own efforts. Which can completely overwhelm others when facing difficulties facing the same challenges.

He’s certainly to blame for the start of mass immigration, which whether people want to admit or not has forced down wages and overwhelmed housing and NHS waiting lists

Well this is a pretty can of worms isn't it?

So many things to address, but this concept of resilience being bandied about does make me ponder on what it actually means? I would assume that resilience comes from having enough self-worth to be able to demand that the outcomes and goals you choose should be fulfilled - I'm talking about the reasonable ones of course - so a decent job, a home, a stable family life.

However, achieving those basics is ever more complicated. I used to believe I was worthy of employment and as a hard worker and willing to learn I could contribute, I wasn't fussy - background in retail, admin, and some creative areas. But now in my 50s I can't even get a minimum wage job because younger people are cheaper. 7 years of self-employment in retail apparently make me less attractive as I might not want to work under other people. I'm a retention risk for jobs that employers think are beneath me, not that I do. I can't get through online screening no matter how hard I tweak my CV or cover letters.

I used to be resilient but now I'm not wanted, and apparently my self-worth was actually misplaced arrogance.

Oh yes, and caring for elderly parents is a priority because services to support them are non-existent at worst, and a bureaucratic quagmire at best. Interacting with them is almost a full time job in itself.

No, I'm not seeking help, because every time I've tried I've been passed round like a hot potato and I can't afford to go private. But obviously I'm the problem. I've weathered many storms - bereavement, divorce, unnecessary tangles with authority, and always been able to start again. But this time it seems I'm actively blocked at every turn, and castigated for not trying harder.

So I would say that resilience is a useful buzz word, but relatively meaningless in the context of the modern world where people don't get the time to adjust to technology, constant changes in standards and morals, and very little in the way of security in any area, if you're trying to work from the bottom up.

And I do think that capitalism is much to blame - for every social ill there is an industry that has to be fed new customers.

I think we can have conversations around mental health till the cows come home but the genie is out of the bottle and judging by the main tone of threads like these, survival is only achieved by having very sharp elbows and no feelings whatsoever.

We've created our own hell really.

It is not an out of work benefit. It is not designed to replace income from work. It is designed to offset the costs of being disabled. Being disabled should not cost someone money, as it is not something they can help. It is a financial leveller.
Without PIP, some people could not work at all.

You have a very basic point with lots of caveats so that can’t be attributed to MH health problems of todays society, certainly not the younger ones.