To be constantly surprised that people 'don't drive'?

[MissEloiseBridgerton]

Every day on here, and on my own social media, I am shocked that soooo many people don't drive. My local FB group is constantly people asking for favours because they don't drive, they want a dump run, or someone to deliver second hand stuff to them. On here, the barriers to work, to childcare, to anything is so often that they don't drive!

For me growing up, learning to drive was just what you did. I don't have any friends who didn't learn to drive at 17. Most had cheap runarounds or borrowed parents car.

I totally understand it's expensive and costly to run a car but I don't think I realised how many people never learned!

I’m “constantly surprised” by how often this comes up on MN - usually with a horrified cry of “But it’s a life skill!”.

The idea that everyone can and should be driving is a major problem with our society, and was used as a key excuse to drastically reduce public transport options back in the sixties. There are an awful lot of people who absolutely should NOT be driving (I am one of them!). Unfortunately, the pressure to do so means there is a worrying number of drivers out there who did just enough to scrape through their tests, probably after several attempts.

Imagine coming on MN and saying “I’m taking lessons to operate a piece of heavy machinery that has the potential to kill someone if I can’t use it properly. I’ve failed the test six times. Should I have a seventh try?”. People would be up in arms. But specify that that machine is a car and suddenly posters are queuing up to say “Of course you must keep trying, don’t give up, you can do it OP!”. It’s madness.

The arguments in favour of everyone and his dog driving are always the same (and easily debunked) too. “Non-drivers are always CFs who expect others to ferry them about”. Well, I’m sure some do exist, but it really isn’t the norm - even if just because in practical terms you are going to struggle to find someone to do the “ferrying” a lot of the time. Expecting it doesn’t mean it will happen! But in my experience, it actually tends to go the other way - drivers want to offer you a lift when a journey will be very simple on the bus. They’re just so entrenched in the idea that public transport is inconvenient that they can’t imagine it might actually be easier than waiting around for a lift.

“Well, it’s all very well if you live in London or another big city, but what would you do if you lived in a one-street village with only one bus a week?”. Just a radical idea - maybe I wouldn't live there if I couldn’t drive! Or if I’d be born somewhere like that and really found it impossible to drive, I might, you know, move? And if I’ve never lived anywhere like that, why would I plan for a life I don’t have?

“It’s so restrictive if you want to go on holiday” is another one. Well, maybe if you want to go somewhere exceptionally remote, but there are countless places you can go on holiday without a car. I’ve somehow managed to see Rome, Barcelona, Prague, Lisbon, Dubrovnik, Stockholm, Athens and many more places and resorts without a car - and there are still a lot of places I’d still like to see. Also, how many holidays are people going on? I’d say I take four or five holidays a year, which is probably above average, and I’m in no danger of running out of destinations yet. Who are all these people who have seen everywhere you can without a car and are now stranded?

Finally there’s age to consider. I agree with those saying it’s a bad idea to rely on your partner driving, as they might not be around forever. But isn’t it also a bad idea to rely on being able to drive - indeed, having to rely on being able to drive - into old age? My uncle is 85 and has been told to stop driving for medical reasons; he’s bereft. He’s become so reliant on his car that he’d rather risk harming himself and others (he’s already backed into a neighbour’s car) than get on a bloody bus. But at least he’s someone with the option of buses - if he’d moved to a small village thinking “I’ll be fine because I can drive”, he’d be stuffed now.

I'm not on some anti-driving crusade. Of course it’s a very useful skill if you have the aptitude for it. But I do think this idea that it’s something everyone should be able to do is worrying.

So much in life has to do with the parent lottery.

We didn't have the money for lessons but I did have a Dad who cared enough to teach me (and in fact taught all three daughters who shared the same little car to learn).

I count myself lucky but I can absolutely see how not everyone would get that chance. If I had had to fund lessons and had no other way of practising I wouldn't have been able to get my license.

I don't drive because I'm partially sighted, you wouldn't know to look at me and I might not tell you my whole medical history just because I tell you that I don't drive. I'm sure there are many people like me out there.

Jesus the privilege of some people on here! Assuming that ‘everyone’ had parents who drove, could afford lessons, and afford to buy and run a car! At 17 I was living in what was basically a squat after being kicked out of home, I couldn’t even afford to eat more than 4-5 days a week, let alone have driving lessons! Then years later when I finally could have possibly afforded lessons, I was living in a city with good public transport, and saved the money for a deposit on a flat instead. There was a brief window when I properly had the money, but I was also a single parent with a young child who I barely saw because I was working all hours, and I didn’t have the time or energy, nor did I want to spend several hours a week trying to learn when it would have been time away from her (I only got to see her at weekends because of my working hours, those weekends were precious). Then I developed Parkinson’s and I wouldn’t be allowed to now anyway, and I no longer have the money regardless. I’m nearly 50 and will never drive. I don’t expect lifts. I use public transport, online shopping, and taxis in an emergency only because of costs. Sure if I’d had the money when younger I’d have learned, but it absolutely feel into the class of ‘luxury’ not ‘necessity’ or ‘life skill’ ffs.

I am sure she is capable of plenty of things!

Exactly some of these posters are bizarre we don’t need more drivers on the road we need less if anything. As I’ve said upthread a sizeable amount of car journeys are for very short distances. We need to improve our bus services.

If someone is badgering drivers for lifts that’s a them problem. I haven’t asked anyone for a lift in about a decade.

Hopefully I’ll pass my test this year, for my own benefit as an extra (not essential) skill to have, but I’ve not negatively impacted anyone or the environment by using trains and walking in the meanwhile and I can’t think of any major opportunities I’ve missed out on.

Last time I asked for help while I was moving (to a nearby street), it was actually from a non-driver and she offered now that I come to think of it. We both loaded things into multiple Ubers and I got her dinner to say thank you. The lack of car wasn’t the issue it was the getting stuff out of my flat down the stairs. But I mainly use man and van services when I move and would do even if I could drive.

Having no license doesn’t seem to deter some people from driving!

This poster nailed it on the first page.

She’s right that there are occasions when a vehicle is needed or preferable but this doesn’t mean her friends have a duty to drive her!

Well said.

Read this OP.

I'm a similar age. My mum felt so liberated by being able to drive after passing her test in her 40s that she gave me and my sister driving lessons for our 17th birthdays and we both passed our tests first time within three months of starting learning. My mum loved driving. She was very much of the opinion that driving is a basic life skill, like reading and cooking, and I agree. Every woman needs her own private bank account with a little stash of cash in it and a driving licence.

I’m not really sure why it’s considered compulsory to start learning g to drive as soon as you hit 17. I didn’t start until my early 20s, I was working by then and paid for my own lessons.

@ThoroughlyModernNotMillie

I'm 59, never learnt to drive for a variety of reasons.
I don't and have never had a husband to ferry me around.
On the rare occasions I need compost and big garden pots I use a taxi or get things delivered - it's really not complicated.
These threads come up so often, it baffles why drivers get so wound up about it. If you don't want to give someone a lift don't offer or say no if they ask.
My son drives and had a car for 18 months. He doesn't ferry me around, take me shopping or anything else, he's probably dropped me off somewhere a handful of times on his way to somewhere else.
Before we had a car I travelled all over the country on public transport. I've never come across anywhere I really wanted to go, that I couldn't get on public transport.

Yes I live in a city with good transport links, that's not 'lucky'. It's called planning your life.
Arguments about lack of public transport I'm rural areas are irrelevant because I don't and will never live in a rural area

Was recently “banned” from driving for medical reasons (only for 6 months tho). The thought of not having a car has been far worse than the reality. When it’s just not an option you just learn to do without - you’ve no choice.

Supermarkets have been a struggle, I can only buy what I can carry without having to pay for a taxi and small local supermarkets are extortionate compared to big retail parks, a family member was taken into hospital and the lack of being able to just jump in the car and get there ASAP wasn’t ideal but other than that it’s been fine.

Granted I live in a city with great public transport options (and I get discounts due to my medical condition) but if I chose to live more rurally without being able to drive that would be my choice.

I do understand where you’re coming from if you’ve always had a car but you can quite easily cope without if need be.

Completely agree. We need to move right away from the viewpoint that driving is ideal and anything else is a second rate substitute. If we have any hope of saving the planet we need mass public transport that’s either free or extremely heavily subsidised.

I can drive but I choose not to. I’m autistic and the anxiety caused by driving, navigating and the ever present worry that I’ll accidentally do something wrong and injure someone means that it’s not the best option for me. That’s fine. I can always move somewhere that I don’t have to drive and use the multitude of alternatives that exist!

I was at a residential training college out in the sticks where about half of the students had cars. We all had to do a number of placements throughout the week. There was a strict rule that every time the non drivers were given a lift we paid the driver a mileage rate. It made things much fairer and reduced any resentment about being asked for lifts.

It’s very expensive nowadays, but I see it as a life skill. I paid for my DC to learn, they’re not that keen on driving but saw the sense in learning, especially if someone else was paying for it! One has recently bought her own car after years of having a licence. It has really opened up her life, and career opportunities.

Surely you understand that not everyone will have the same experience as you, though? Where I grew up the vast majority couldn't afford to learn at 17 - I certainly couldn't, my parent didn't have the money for lessons never mind insurance and a car (or even insurance on their car), and I didn't pass my test til I was in my mid 20s and earning my own money.

Yes she is, cooking, cleaning, watching the grandkids.

But never ever been able to drop her children at cubs or parties or take her elderly parents to hospital appointments. Or do a big shop! She’d wait until her husband was off work in a Saturday to do a proper shop. Nice woman, but not driving did make her stand out compared to all the other Mums who all pitched in with lifts and school runs.

Would you consider someone who has a job reporting at board level and owns two properties as “capable”?

Because if you put it off and put it off you may well never do it. And older learners seem to find it harder. Your brain is still very plastic at 17, so the multiple skills required — hand and eye coordination, reaction times, judging distances etc — come more easily to most and then get embedded. I've known so many competent people struggle to learn later in life, but not youngsters. All the young people over the age of 17 drive where I live because otherwise they;d never go anywhere or do anything.

This exactly. Honestly I’m glad the posters bleating on about it being an essential life skill are getting pushback.

This happens on every thread about driving and both drivers and non-drivers explain how they’ve did fine without it and in some cases it’s enhanced their life ie. More walking/better health.

However unfortunately some (not all) drivers are so limited and narrow in their mindset they can’t seem to take it in.

Not necessarily.

Or do a big shop! She’d wait until her husband was off work in a Saturday to do a proper shop.

Do people really still “do a big shop” now though? Even my technophobe 74 year-old mother has learned how to do it online!

You may not mean it to, but your post comes across as very judgy. There are LOTS of reasons for people not to drive. Instead of criticising them, we should all be demanding far better public transport facilities.