Have you got a "no because" friend?

[Soniastrumpet1984]

I've got a nice friend , fairly new . I really got on with her but at times, she can be tricky. She'll start a conversation, leading a certain way and when I join in, she will shut it down. Its nothing really important, here's an example (not a real one)
"I really need to get some new trousers in town
Me : oh nice. I saw some nice ones in New Look
"I can't go to New Look as the stuff is always rubbish. I might look in M&S
Me: they'll have some nice stuff
"Yeah but I hate M&S. There's never enough choice unless you go online"
Me : you could try online if you can't find anything in the shop
"I don't like online though"
I like her a lot but a conversation is like banging your head on the wall sometimes

I usually limit contact with ‘friends’ who take up too much of my headspace, can’t really be bothered trying to get to the bottom of their little games and what their issues are, for the most part I like my friendships to be fairly light, have a nice meetup and not go away from it trying to decipher what it was all about and spend hours thinking it over

The only person I've ever known who started talking like this was sectioned a few months later. Genuinely.

Games people play by Eric Bern talks about the ‘Yes,But’ script being a passive aggressive attention seeking script. So exhausting to be around.

Do you not see that you're pretty much doing here what you're accusing her of doing?

Just about to say this!!
All other possibilities are a nope!

https://abihendra.com/2018/11/19/why-dont-you-yesbut-game-and-how-to-stop-it/amp/

I hope this thread has helped you OP, it has been a revelation to me. Thanks to everyone that suggested Eric Bern. The link above is a good short summary IMO.

My person needs a lot of praise and sympathy (I mean a LOT). But I hadn’t realised these exchanges were part of that.

Gosh @Soniastrumpet1984, some people are just not getting it.

Surely it's normal if a friend says they need something, and you have seen some nice ones somewhere, you then mention it? That's a normal conversation? No?

You're not forcing her to go to New Look. You just said that you saw some nice ones there.

She is definitely a negative Nancy. I think @Qwerty111 sums it up well and agree with him/her about how confusing it must be.

It's draining to have a negative rebuttal to everything all the time, whether it was a suggestion or just an observation.

Sorry haven’t rtft but surely you just need to say,

“you know I am trying to be helpful but you shut down every single suggestion I make and not just today either, it’s quite negative, is something going on with you that you want to talk about?”

This thread had been very interesting. As a pp observed is all about intent. I had a childhood filled with these sort of exchanges being related to status and one upmanship. It was dispiriting and awful. The only solution was not to engage. .

My DH is like this, however his intent is not status seeking, but more ‘critical thinking.’ It is his default setting to question everything. This can feel like criticism. To keep me sane, I always respond ‘ what is your positive suggestion?’ If he continues to critisize what I put forward I say ‘my suggestion is best unless you come up with something better.’ He has now learned to come up with a positive suggestion. And he generally realises that what I said in the first place is the best solution. We have taken many years to get to this point!

Sometimes its subconscious though. Some people are wired like this and you have to deprogramme yourself a bit. I was raised in an "argumentative" family: not as in shouting and throwing things but everyone had a point of view on something.

It was a good thing in many ways because we were raised to have the courage of our convictions and have strong opinions but it did lead to a lot of slightly pointless "yes, but"... conversations. I still have a bit of a tendency to disagree (respectfully) for the sake of it. I've got much better at it.

Also while the negativity is annoying, unthinkingly smiling and going along with everything for the sake of it isn't great either.

(See, I've just done it here 😀)

It's largely about realising what's in your locus of control and letting go of what isn't. OP can change her own behaviour but not that of her friend.

I would suggest researching the Solution Focused approach, which means, in a nutshell, you focus on the solution to the problem rather than the problem itself. So your questions are about what will work rather than what doesn't. Notice I said, questions. Solution Focused is not about telling the other person what will work for them. The only person who knows what will work for them is the person themselves and you can ask them to tell you their solution using this method.

OMG I could have written this about my friend! I have to admit I was struggling so much I stopped making much effort as anytime I suggested a meet up, I got a long list of reasons why she was too busy or not available but never a suggestion of when she was available.

Now I see all these "woe is me" social media posts about her being very lonely. Its hard to read. I'm sure she thinks I've been a terrible friend and abandoned her. In the past she's told me about friends who she'd lost touch with and I couldn't never understand it, until now!

You could try the 'Oh dear, doesn't sound too hopeful...perhaps you won't be able to find any? Can you manage without?" tack.

I have a friend like that 😆 but I know her well enough to reply with something along the lines of “oh well, then don’t buy any trousers then if nothing agrees with you, just run round in your knickers!” and we’ll just laugh and she’ll realise she’s being a tit! Admittedly, I do limit our outings as it can get draining but I always point it out to her and to be fair, she takes it well!

That book was amazing. I’d forgotten about it!

This is how to converse with these types, if you have the energy.

"I really need to get some new trousers in town"

Ugh. Trousers. Hate trousers.

"I can't go to New Look as the stuff is always rubbish. I might look in M&S"

Ugh. New Look can fuck off.

"Yeah but I hate M&S. There's never enough choice unless you go online"

Ugh. M&S can fuck off too.

"I don't like online though"

Ugh. I hate shopping online. Everything is crap. The world's gone to shit.

We have three in our friendship group- the last meal out they just randomly sat in a triangle and it was a revelation. They kept each other thoroughly entertained and everyone else got on with chatting. Then after, all three said to separate people how wonderful the evening was! They have lots to recommend as friends, one in particular, I would trust if I was ever in a fix, but they are just horrible to have ‘chit chat’ with!

Wait, are you serious? Wasn't it spiralling? Weren't they one upping each others terrible life?

"My kitchen gets super messy"
"Mines even messier because I have 4 kids I have it so hard"
"I have it the hardest because I have a husband"

This is interesting because I recently had a fall out with a colleague because she accused me of being like this. Whereas I would say it was her who was being negative. For example she complained she was blocked in at work by a delivery lorry and when asked he said he would be 5 mins. She complained to me saying he should have moved. I said it would involve him completely leaving the car park and then reversing back in so I get why it’s a hassle. Another example she moans that so and so doesn’t have time to listen to her ideas. I say well she is very busy at this time perhaps try speaking to her this afternoon. When she’s in a good mood she says that I always give people the benefit of the doubt. When she’s in a bad mood She says always have to “come back” with something.

so maybe your friend feels the same? She is trying to just have a moan and doesn’t want ideas / advice.

either way it’s a very tiring way to hold a conversation. When my colleague is moaning about something now I just tend to agree or say mmmmmm as I know she doesn’t want my input. It’s not worth telling her she does exactly the same to me if I complain about a rude customer etc she will say “oh I think she’s really nice / she’s just got a lot on” etc which is surely the same thing

Omg, who can actually run a conversation this way though? It’s way too much effort. Is this what we’re meant to be doing?

Just ask more questions rather than making statements in your convos with her. Simple.

Personally, I couldn’t be friends with someone like this - they’d drive me nuts - but you seem to like her so to ease your irritation just be more questioning than asserting.

This made me really laugh! They’re just like that, some tenuous reason why a perfectly good suggestion is out the question. Some people seem desperate to have an unsolvable problem. I’ve known someone like this and it’s been tempting to say ‘oh dear sounds like you’re totally screwed then’ rather than get drawn in to trying to help.

I often see OPs do this!

He sounds like he needs reminding that it’s not all about him.

@Qwerty111, what your person does it's called perseveration. It's usually talked about in the context of brain damage or autism, but it's also recognised as something that can happen in ordinary social situations.

It's to do with an idea getting fixed (something like "Qwerty and I were talking about where to buy trousers but never reached a solution. We must revisit the question"). They often don't realise they're doing it.

If you read articles about perseveration, they often mention a possible link with OCD, which feels to me like it fits.