TW: Child abuse... I don't know how to feel or what to do

[user4362325920]

Have name changed because this is so outing. I feel like I can't talk to my friends about this, although some do know the basics, and I can't talk to family because everyone is biased. I'm so confused and conflicted and don't know how to feel.

My older brother (50s) has had two step daughters since the girls were very young, about 3 and 5 or so. Split with their mother 5 years ago but no animosity between them really, no cheating etc. Brother has a real temper and I think this contributed but I don't think there was domestic violence or anything like that. He can, however, also be a very lovely and caring person too, so it's not like he's always this angry ogre character.

The girls are now late teens and have both recently made allegations about my brother, saying he touched them inappropriately when they were about 7 until around 12. The police have said that as there is no evidence they cannot charge. I believe the girls as they have no reason to lie, and having spoken to them in person about this (we are actually quite close), they seem genuine. The allegations are quite 'mild' as these types of allegations go. I don't know if that's the right word but I don't know how to describe them. They include things like back and stomach rubs under clothes, that sometimes would include the top of the bum; and games that meant them undoing his shirt buttons and trouser zip. It was accompanied by inappropriate comments too. I think a lot of it doesn't necessarily sound that bad in isolation but I think every girl or woman knows when something is really off but we can't exactly categorise what is so bad about it.

I have not spoken to my brother since this came out about 6 months ago. Not a word. Family is split over this and it's causing big problems. I was full of disgust and wanted nothing to do with him at first but as time goes on I'm struggling with guilty feelings. He is quite unwell and probably doesn't have more than a decade at absolute most so that is contributing to these feelings. I feel like it would almost be better if the allegations were more serious- then I'd feel more black and white about it all. At the moment I find myself questioning whether innocent things were misconstrued. I find myself wondering if so many men of that generation are creepy that he almost couldn't help it. It's so impossibly difficult when it's your own family and you don't know what to do and what's right.

I'm not really sure what my AIBU is- maybe am I unreasonable to freeze him out completely? I've also stopped my son seeing him, even though they were very close, and I know he finds this hard. Mostly I just needed to talk about it, and it feels better to do so anonymously.

That’s awful. Really hard. I hope the girls are ok.

I can’t tell you what to feel or think, though some will be along shortly who will!

I understand that when you’ve known someone for 50 years, it’s hard to accept them as the perpetrator of this kind of crime.

What does he say? Has he admitted it? Defended himself? That may influence my response.

Confused about your voting.
Urnbu to freeze him out. His age is no excuse, it wasnt normal to be a nonce then, i am in my 50s and blokes being arseholes was normal but not perving over children, that was never normal.

I think what’s been described is enough for me to not want a relationship if it were my sibling. Certainly no interaction with children. I don’t think men that age behave like that no. Unless they are child abusers, my friends and family members are that age group and that is not generational behaviour. They would never behave like that. He is a paedophile. Don’t excuse him.

I think your first instinct was right.

Support the girls- cut him off. Dirty pedo. How can a little girl unzipping a man's fly be "misconstrued"? Misconstrued from what?

I did jury service for inappropriate touching and marital rape, the child sex abuse made up the majority of it though. There was no physical evidence just the girls testimony, she was 13 but it happened pre-covid so she was about 8 at the time. It was rubbing her belly and bum over her pyjamas. It was her dad and he was sentenced to 14 years. I would have nothing to do with him. I don't understand why CPS aren't charging him as they have two witnesses but I guess they feel they unlikely to get a conviction.

I am 90% certain the accusations are true, my problem is that they aren't super serious (I hate to diminish them- I know it's not ok but it's not a rape accusation, for example. I hope this makes sense and I don't sound callous) and so I feel almost as if I'm overreacting IYSWIM?

Sorry-

IABU- You're overreacting and being cold and should maintain a relationship
IANBU- Cut the bastard out of your life

I know what you mean. Obviously there can be worse and less bad, even in a category of unforgveqble crimes.

Im going to be uber rational now. It seems you have several choices. Play with the options and see how they feel. Then pick one and see how it works out. For example

1. declare him a filthy animal and refuse to see or hear about him again.
2. Declare his crimes appalling, make sure no child goes near him and accept he is still seeing your parents, who will occasionally talk to you about him.
3. Declare his crimes appalling, make sure no child goes near him, and stay in distant contact. Occasionally seeing him, checking he’s ok, helping him to rebuild his life without reoffending.

etc etc. you could add lynch him at the start of that list, and let him move in with you at the end, but I doubt they’d be useful to you!

I understand your sense of overreacting given your family seem to be supportive of him. It’s always the way and it’s what can make disclosing abuse so difficult for children. You’re not overreacting though, sexualised touching of children is wrong, it’s deeply harmful and causes lasting trauma. In some ways it’s almost easier if he had committed rape, because that’s a hard line for most people. I practice as a trauma therapist and have lost count of the number of times someone as said “but he only touched me” when trying to make sense of their feelings.

If you try to think of it as a violation of their bodily integrity it can become clearer. He touched and invited touch that they could not consent to, that’s the harm regardless of how far he did or didn’t go.

Bullshit. No one goes to prison for 14 years for rubbing their own child's belly and bum over clothing. Every time mine come in for a cuddle they get a back rub or a bum slap ffs. Make up a better story next time.

I’m afraid that you are minimising here. Sexual abuse of children is always serious, because it wasn’t rape doesn’t mean the victims feel less abused for want of a better word. It’s horrific for them to have been inappropriately touched and doing the things he asked them to do whilst they were children. They were in the care of an adult who was supposed to be someone they could trust to look after them, not take advantage of their innocence.

i meant to add to the above, what he did was unforgivable. You can maintain that and still have choices about what you do.

Personally it’s a hard no from me. But I don’t particularly like my brother. I may feel differently if we’d been genuinely close.

These allegations are serious - don’t minimise it. Children should never feel threatened in this manner. Rubbing parts of their bodies in the manner you describe is intrusive and embarrassing for them. He had no right to do this and inappropriate touching of this nature is sexual abuse, and legally, sexual assault.

He was in a position of both power, and trust over them. It is not OK for him to do this - for them to raise it now illustrates how unwelcome it was and your first priority should be to them.

My dd recently reported her sports coach for similar long-term inappropriate touching (I subsequently saw him approach her and touch her bottom) I have read a lot about it and there is simply no reason for an adult male to do this to a child other than for their own gratification. Telling them to undo his clothing is an even stronger red line.

Whether or not the police are involved is one thing, but this type of behaviour is absolutely inexcusable and you should support the girls and keep other children far away from him.

Some things to think about:

Saying its not super serious doesn't mean it will not affect the girls for the rest of their lives, their sense of self worth, their trust of all men in their lives and future relationships, the fact that their relationships model is terribly flawed. It also may impact on their relationship with their own mother through a guilt/blame cycle. They may be body image issues, a sense of self disgust and guilt, self control issues or substance abuse issues from trauma.

Victims of sexual abuse often minimise when telling others or through trauma block out other things that happen.

Unfortunately sexual abuse statistics show the perpetrator within a family very often a stepfather and sadly too this is often a deliberate tactic of pedophiles to gain access to children.

They include things like back and stomach rubs under clothes, that sometimes would include the top of the bum; and games that meant them undoing his shirt buttons and trouser zip. It was accompanied by inappropriate comments too. I think a lot of it doesn't necessarily sound that bad in isolation but I think every girl or woman knows when something is really off but we can't exactly categorise what is so bad about it.

Think of it this way, as an adult woman if a man rubbed your belly and bun under your clothes without your informed consent, would that be ok. If he compelled you, as part of a game to unbutton his shirt and unzip his fly, would that be ok? Assuming it wouldn’t be ok (and you’d be able to articulate why), what makes it hard for you to categorise his behaviour towards these girls as abusive?

Lots of people putting AIBU- please can you explain why you think I am overreacting?

I think your decision to prevent access with your son is correct and this should remain. Your mixed feelings are understandable. If he dies in the next 10 years will you miss not having had a relationship? If you do have a relationship, will this negatively impact relationships with others in your family?

I suppose it is possible to have some kind of relationship as long as he has no contact with children, if that is what you want. Some schools of thought suggest 'protective factors' like family relationships also help reduce offending rather than being ostracised as a monster. BUT what he has done is very difficult to tolerate - would be for me. Yes not the worst on the scale but still a huge abuse of power.

Because you weren’t clear from your OP. I’d take less notice of the voting and concentrate on the advice you’ve been given on the thread.

Because he is much older than me and I remember him rubbing my back before I went to sleep to help me settle and don't recall finding it strange. Absolutely not saying it wasn't for these girls but I'm finding it difficult to see it in black and white terms, which is making me feel guilty about my reaction of cutting him out of my life.

I don't know if I'll miss it. Probably. It's very complex. But then the thought of seeing him makes me sick. I regularly dream he's at home for a Sunday dinner and we all have to pretend it's normal and I wake up in a panic.

Yes it's causing issues with family. Some blankly refuse to believe it and others believe it but think it's not that bad. I think I'm one of the only people who think it's true and is that bad.

I made a mistake as didn’t understand your voting

broadly you are correct to cut contact. Objectively this may not be the most serious crime but it’s still serious. He abused their trust and these crimes (because that is what they are) will have a lasting negative impact on the girls for the rest of their lives.

they should never have been exposed to the nastiness of his sexual needs in this way

Did you have a relationship with the girls? If so personally I would be sure to let them know via their mother that you believe them and that what he did was terribly wrong. It is so important that they feel believed and heard.

Because he is much older than me and I remember him rubbing my back before I went to sleep to help me settle and don't recall finding it strange. Absolutely not saying it wasn't for these girls but I'm finding it difficult to see it in black and white terms, which is making me feel guilty about my reaction of cutting him out of my life.

Rubbing your back is very different to what he did to these girls though, touching the top of their bum and touching under their clothes. Touching a prepubescent girls stomach can be particularly invasive if she’s developing breasts/breast buds.

Very gently, their disclosure may well make you rethink his interactions with you possibly putting them in a different, more questionable light which can be very hard indeed.

I do understand your dilemma, I really do.

But I was abused by my dad and it took me a very long time to understand that it not being rape didn't mean it wasn't abuse. And damaging in the same way. In fact, I had to have a therapist tell me!

So, despite it not being rape, it's still abuse. And it's damaging.

You probably can't impact what the CPS do, but you can support the girls.