TW: Child abuse... I don't know how to feel or what to do

[user4362325920]

Have name changed because this is so outing. I feel like I can't talk to my friends about this, although some do know the basics, and I can't talk to family because everyone is biased. I'm so confused and conflicted and don't know how to feel.

My older brother (50s) has had two step daughters since the girls were very young, about 3 and 5 or so. Split with their mother 5 years ago but no animosity between them really, no cheating etc. Brother has a real temper and I think this contributed but I don't think there was domestic violence or anything like that. He can, however, also be a very lovely and caring person too, so it's not like he's always this angry ogre character.

The girls are now late teens and have both recently made allegations about my brother, saying he touched them inappropriately when they were about 7 until around 12. The police have said that as there is no evidence they cannot charge. I believe the girls as they have no reason to lie, and having spoken to them in person about this (we are actually quite close), they seem genuine. The allegations are quite 'mild' as these types of allegations go. I don't know if that's the right word but I don't know how to describe them. They include things like back and stomach rubs under clothes, that sometimes would include the top of the bum; and games that meant them undoing his shirt buttons and trouser zip. It was accompanied by inappropriate comments too. I think a lot of it doesn't necessarily sound that bad in isolation but I think every girl or woman knows when something is really off but we can't exactly categorise what is so bad about it.

I have not spoken to my brother since this came out about 6 months ago. Not a word. Family is split over this and it's causing big problems. I was full of disgust and wanted nothing to do with him at first but as time goes on I'm struggling with guilty feelings. He is quite unwell and probably doesn't have more than a decade at absolute most so that is contributing to these feelings. I feel like it would almost be better if the allegations were more serious- then I'd feel more black and white about it all. At the moment I find myself questioning whether innocent things were misconstrued. I find myself wondering if so many men of that generation are creepy that he almost couldn't help it. It's so impossibly difficult when it's your own family and you don't know what to do and what's right.

I'm not really sure what my AIBU is- maybe am I unreasonable to freeze him out completely? I've also stopped my son seeing him, even though they were very close, and I know he finds this hard. Mostly I just needed to talk about it, and it feels better to do so anonymously.

My friend was raped as a pre-teen and her accuser plead guilty

My post above - think I meant to say my friends abuser/rapist not “accuser”

The voting is confusing. I put YABU because it's outrageous to consider forgiveness, it isn't yours to give. The adults in this situation owe the girls support. I'm early fifties and like hell was it ever normal.

@user4362325920 WTAF he hid a bar of chocolate in his pants?? Sorry, that's not having a weird sense of humour, that's full on child abuse behaviour, and I've no doubt would have led to much worse.

And that's also your own mother protecting her son! I would bloody well cut them both out of your lives.

I'm a victim of child sexual abuse from my brothers. And I can tell you with absolute certainty that if you don't cut contact with him then you are taking his side. And I know what harm that will cause to the two girls.

I still remember now my mothers boyfriend kissing me goodbye when I was a young child and the way his tongue smelt of drink as it quivered in my mouth... I'm 62 and still remember that feeling of disgust afterwards. Hey ho! It was ONLY a kiss though! 🤦🏻‍♀️

Do you think you are reconsidering the touching you experienced from him in the light of what has happened? It might help explain why you feel so conflicted. Guilt is a really common element of realising that something you previously accepted as normal wasn't right, and trauma bonding can happen when someone is forced to live alongside a person who is abusing them and maintain normality for years. I may be barking up the wrong tree, but your feelings for your brother are very complex and your family sounds quite well-practised at papering over problems and putting pressure on others to conform to the party line. If I were you, I would arrange some counselling just to give you a space to process all of this in your own time. Stop talking to your family about this - just politely shut them down. You've done nothing wrong, and you have every right to be true to your own feelings. You don't owe anyone a relationship.

He put his tongue in your mouth? That’s disgusting.

Another reason why I don’t like adults kissing children on the mouth even if it’s innocent. It blurs boundaries for the kids.

I'm a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, and like you and your family, my family minimized it as not being all that serious either. In my opinion, as a survivor, the absolute best thing you can do for those girls is stay as far away from them as physically possible. They will never be able to heal if the people in their life feel that it's not that serious, or others have been abused much worse. This man violated them physically, emotionally and mentally. He violated the safety of their home, the one place they should be safe was made unsafe by his actions. He has violated a mother/child relationship and they may always be wondering if and what their own mother and extended family knew and why they never stepped up to protect them from this man and his games and "sense of humour". Leave these girls in peace to heal. I'm almost forty years on from when my abuse started and I'm still not fully whole.

You keep saying it’s not that serious but it’s not just the physical aspect of CSA that are damaging it’s the psychological ones. The shame and feeling like you have to keep it a secret. Yes, it could have been worse, but it can always be worse. Also he could have gone further, you have no idea what he could have done or why he stopped doing it. The fact you’re also 90% sure it’s true says a lot.

Mild and not serious and would be more clear cut if it was rape!!!!

For fuck sake OP

GET A GRIP

This was ABUSE !!!!

Just because what he got away with "isn't that bad" doesn't mean he deserves forgiveness. He is a pedo. There is no way I would consider any relationship knowing full well they are telling the truth.

I find myself wondering if so many men of that generation are creepy that he almost couldn't help it.

I understand that this information is very difficult for you to come to terms with and you might not want to cut contact with your brother entirely, but please don't minimise his guilt. He definitely could have helped it.

This is actually a really good point- OP I wonder if you are having some really uncomfortable realisations and/or recollections of your own.

This sounds as though they are punishing you more than they are punishing him. That’s a terrible thing to do. They can make their choices, and I understand the pressures on them. They shouldn’t be punishing you for your choices.

I’m sorry you’ve been put in this position. It’s not fair.

If you are sure the accusations are true and he is saying they did happen (sounds like this is the case as mum is backing it up by saying he was hiding a chocolate bar which is downright weird) then I do think you are right to not want anything to do with him and your family should respect that.

However I do know someone who's life was affected after separating from a partner and she used the children to try and get 'revenge' by planting ideas in their heads and reporting him to the police. These children were younger and more susceptible to saying what their mum had told them. It was of course thrown out when investigated but the effect on the poor man for what he was being wrongly accused of did have a long term effect on his mental health.

Surely you realise that games where two young girls are required to undo the shirt buttons and unzip the trousers of a grown man are abusive? There are no scenarios where this behaviour would be ok.

God that makes me so mad this stuff is still going on in this day and age and in that example in broad day light when presumably he thought no one was watching. What a creep and well done on your daughter.

Your brother's behaviour may not be considered extreme in a legal sense but, does that actually matter?

He clearly behaved in a way which blurred the boundaries for these young girls. He was in a position or power and trust and abused that for his own, disgusting needs.

His actions may well lead to life long issues for his step daughters. Especially now that they haven't been believed.

What man, in his right mind, would place a chocolate bar next to his genitals and get his step daughters to undo his flies? We all know the thought process behind that. Just because he didn't take it further doesn't mean that what he did do wasn't too bad.

You can not control what other family members do. All you can do is choose to protect the dc in your own family.

I have always had a weird feeling but I absolutely do not want to say I was abused because I have zero memories of this. I've always had that icky feeling though, but thought it was in my head.

Just to be clear the girls know I am 100% on their side. The first things I said to them when I found out was that I believe them and love them and they'll always be my priority.

I have never once voiced any confusion to anyone in my family, it's why I wanted to talk about it here because it feels safe and unbiased.

I distinctly remember being about 4 and sitting on an older cousin's lap and undoing his shirt buttons thinking it was hilarious. I did this regularly of my own accord until I was told to stop as I think he was uncomfortable with it. I don't know why I did this but I was very young and it obviously wasn't sexual. But I don't know, I guess this memory doesn't really help my confusion.

Thank you, I really appreciate the replies. It has brought clarity to it for me and helped confirm what I already knew- that this is absolutely not ok and he is a creep.

Legally there may be such a thing as "mild" abuse, but not neccessarily in terms of the effects on the victim.

You’re minimising. If your boss/priest/doctor massaged your chest and bottom and made you unbutton his shirt and unzip his fly while talking filth would it be benign/ok/not a big deal? If your brother had been rubbing your sons arse and genitals and making him undress your brother in this way would it be “just a bit of an overstep” and not really that bad?

The girls were assaulted by your brother. Used for his pleasure because he could. I’d be furious with anyone trying to say that wasn’t what it obviously is. Advocate for them. Next time it is discussed be vocal.

Regardless of his sense of humour, getting little girls to undo his zip and finding it funny or putting chocolate down there is NOT normal and NOT funny. From an outsider point of view, most healthy minded people would see that is not just having a weird sense of humour, it's sexual behaviour, that is probably hidden as a weird sense if humour. You are probably used to this weird sense of humour that you see it as your brother just being your brother. ITS NOT NORMAL BEHAVIOUR!!!