To feel so fed up that the only way to get a good education seems to be privately?

[Greensha]

I’m uk based. I live in a reasonably nice area but the schools are rubbish. We’ve looked further afield and they’re all pretty similar. I don’t know if my expectations are off but the classes are huge, like 30 kids in one room (I thought 25 was the max!). The buildings scruffy. One had a lovely lunch room and nice outside space but the rest of the school was falling down. There’s absolutely no way we can afford private and the one local to us is worlds apart to these state schools. I am trying to remind myself that a lot of that is superficial, the teaching is the same in both sectors as the teachers are the same and I know my dc will leave school with a proper and ‘real’ understanding of life. I can’t help but feel my kids are at a disadvantage overall though and it upsets me. Why should some kids get small classes, loads of sport opportunities and nice clean and tidy environments when others don’t. Doesn’t seem right or fair.

Neither of those statements are true. They are tropes trotted out every time. A clever child might do well anywhere and they might get bullied to fuck or lost in the crowd or have a learning need (which has nothing to do with IQ) overlooked in any school.
The quality of teaching varies across ALL schools. In a v common trope that private teachers could never cope in state when the truth is that many if us have taught across both sectors. You might just as well say that some state teachers are poor because they don't have Masters and can't prep Oxbridge candidates. I absolutely think that all schools need a cross section of staff ..some will be excellent disciplinarians but maybe less accomplished at A level, some will be the opposite, some will be both.

This thread is going the way they always do with private school teachers, kids and parents being bashed based on anecdata and narrow or no direct experience. It's depressing. Im sure the op has now got the idea that there's a massive spectrum out there but so much depends on the individual child and it's simply not true that all kids can have a successful experience in state. I never intended to send mine private but the state school they went to triggered EBSA. Contrary to @Oblomov25's opinion, moving was not an option due to myriad factors involving parental support, mortgage lending criteria, ND kids who absolutely couldn't cope with any more change and a requirement to stay near their dad.

Yes bullying is there everywhere unfortunately. DS's case in the grammar school he went to it was only ever verbal. Physical fights were dealt with very seriously with varying levels of suspensions. DS did retaliate physically once and managed to shut the bully up. School dealt with the issue with others being horrible to him, but he himself was suspended

By the time 6th form came around DS was so much happier and joyful and all the silliness from the earlier years went away. He defo found that the STEM teaching in 6th form was great (especially the maths and FM)

That’s rubbish OP. There are lots of brilliant, very good and good state schools - otherwise we wouldn’t use them!
And lots of shit private schools… Sticking your child in an elite’s private system is probably the guaranteed way to make sure they are NOT well-rounded.

And there are also some shit state schools + good indy schools. Indy kids don't live in an indy bubble you know, they have lives and experiences outside of school and many parents mix and match state + indy so their DC will have experiences in both sectors.

Why so chippy @Barbadossunset ? Where did I say ANY of that nonsense? You seem to be projecting your own issues on to me for some reason.

Just relating my experience. Never made any extrapolation from that. Just worth considering that pretty extreme and criminal behaviour can happen at even top private schools. Sorry to burst your bubble, being kept away from the nasty proles isn't going to protect your DC from that. Especially the drugs.

Mmm, sure. Private kids look the same, sound the same, have the same politics as their minted ( mostly parents), it’s just so dull.

So if I say that all state kids look the same, sound the same, have the same politics as their parents, it’s just so dull, is that acceptable?
You've definitely showed your inverse snobbery and prejudice with that comment!

@twistyizzy well I'd argue that as privately educated kids make up 7% of the population and state educated the remaining 93%, the latter are likely to be a more heterogeneous group, no?

Oh like my local state schools with 98% white British pupils you mean?
Not every area is multi cultural etc

What is this push lately to describe public and private schools as "indy" as if giving it a pretty, little, slightly edgy name will gloss over the paying for your child to be better connected educated than the 93%.

Because they are officially classed as independent (shortened to indy for typing sake). They aren't officially classed as public or private
And bore off with the passive aggressive 'connections" remark. Very few parents choose it for this, in fact not sure what connections DDs NE indy would have. Unless you play rugby or cricket

The private percentage also varies a great deal round the country. It's double that in parts of London and at sixth form.

I see you are in the NE @twsityizzy I teach in a NE state school which is very diverse both socioeconomically and in terms of faith, ethnicity etc. it's a wonderful comprehensive community.

But I was really referring to the 93% as a whole which will
Be far more diverse as a group than the 7%

state curriculum is the big equalizer.
quaint, small, large, or modern buildings is all esthetics.
the problem is the amount of perceived disruption in classrooms.
private schools can not only choose what students to accept but can expel students. state schools can't do so as easily.
state, grammar, private the problem is all the same how to help children for whom traditional schools are unsuitable. not whether there is a pool on site.

The NE is a large area. Our area is dominantly white British as you can see from my stat of 98%. Ex-mining village catchments tend to be that demographic however I know the further West you go in the NE then the greater the % of ethnic diversity.
Unfortunately NE and Midlands yet again were overall at bottom of table for GCSE results in 23/24.

You live in a nice area and clearly charge about your child having a good education and want the best for them. What is most unfair is children living in poverty, children born to addicts, children who have disabilities and not being supported correctly, children who do not have access to healthy food, girls not allowed an education, children being bombed in war torn countries. Pretty sure they have the unfair treatment in life…….

Sorry to burst your bubble, being kept away from the nasty proles isn't going to protect your DC from that. Especially the drugs.

@OnGoldenPond amazingly both my dc went to private schools and emerged without having taken drugs or threatening anyone with a knife. I realise hearing about good outcomes from private schools isn’t what you hoped for - but that was our experience.

No independent school is preventing any state school child getting good GCSE results. No child at any state school was denied a 7-9 because of the existence of independent schools.

exactly this. The problem is the perceived classroom disruption by a few who manage to ruin school for many and i suspect the disruptions are not present in all schools.

@Barbadossunset not sure what your beef is with me, are my experiences triggering you in some way.? Nowhere did I say that all private school pupils emerge with drug problems, though it is remarkably easy for them to get those drugs if they want. It's a problem of having access to a lot of cash with which to get into trouble.

Both my DC attended private schools and didn't end up with drug habits. But a good number of their privately educated peers did run into problems caused by drug use. Very few of their state school peers did. That's just our experience. Your insistence that there's no drug taking at private schools is pretty naive and I'm mystified about why you are so invested in shooting me down.

Also, by the time kids start studying for their GCSEs, they're streamed anyway, so most of the disruptive kids are filtered out.

I went to a pretty mixed comp. We did have disruptive kids to contend with in yrs 7 and 8, but they spent half their time being sent to the Head of Year, excluded from lessons etc. From yr9 onwards, we were streamed and I was barely conscious of these children and never really came into contact with them except for at registration. I don't know what it would have been like for the kids in their class, or how much time the disruptive ones actually spent in class in between bunking off and bring excluded. You might not be able to afford private school, but there's always tuition to plug the gaps as and when they occur.

Experiences of both state and private. Teaching is the same at both. Bullying and overall disruption is huge in state, none existent in private. Private schooling is worth every penny. My god how I wish state schools would make an effort to clamp down on the chaos so we could send our child there. Ain’t happening any time soon here alas.

I was at INDY in the 80's and I am still waiting for these useful connections that will set me up for life to kick in.
DD left hers at 16 and DS is still there so maybe they will get some at some point instead

@BeyondMyWits why do you think the private school children are better educated vs educated in a nicer setting? the grades at many state schools are superior.
i'm a firm believer in calm and kind regardless of the grades both the draconian rules school type and pushy academic (to the point of mh issues) are not settings i consider appropriate for a child.

Not all schools stream. My children’s does not. Avoids sink sets - which is what happens to all those kids your kids don’t see in their top sets. They disrupt each other and nothing gets done. In non streamed schools the bright and able are mixed up with everyone else so everyone has the opportunity to learn. Disrupters are sent out. My kids would be top set across the board but I love that their school prioritises the whole and not the few. Plus they learn vital life (non academic) lessons on the way: how to concentrate when people are distracting you, tolerance, patience, team work. And that everyone has something to contribute.