To think the call back into the office is an example of the patriarchy very much alive and well?

[Yestttlo]

And anyone who thinks otherwise is either brainwashed by the patriarchy or isn’t a mother with a huge proportion of child related responsibility on her shoulders? (Or someone who is in a job where they can’t work from home so don’t want to support other women having the right to).

I have worked from home since covid. Been in the office eight times where it was necessary, for instance a company away day or face to face client meeting. I have a young dc and the call back to the office will damage my career progression due to time spent travelling which means I can’t be online longer and because I will be stretched to get household stuff done .. no I don’t mean I clean the toilets during work hours but that I can put a wash on first thing and know I can unload it at lunch, or get cooking done for the evening during my lunch break which means my evening is not chaotic and I can actually rest a little before starting in full force again the next day.

I will be fighting it to the very end. I will make my views clear. I strongly believe that forcing people into offices hugely disproportionately affects women. My work can be done anywhere. Forcing back into offices is a neon sign that the patriarchy is alive and well. Thoughts?

Were you taken on in a WFH position? What does your contract say?

Employers aren't required to accommodate people's caring responsibilities.

My job involves some travel. I find it very hard as a lone parent. When I got to the second interview I asked whether travel was essential. I was told it was beneficial but not essential. If it had been essential I would not have taken the role. I wouldn't have a right to complain about them not accommodating my caring responsibilities.

The poor provision of childcare in this country is a massive problem (availability and cost), and some employers do recognise this, but they don't have to.

It’s more an employer wanting staff in the office.🙄

I just came across this article on this topic which I think sums it up:Why are bosses mandating a return to the office in 2025?

Totally disagree. You being paid to work not wash up or do child care. Wfh isn't working in a lot of cases and not seeing colleagues daily means you not building team relationships. Surely your dh does equal household tasks to you. Yabu.

It is a nonsense that WFH has been abused. This is not the case in my experience.

It is important that people working in the office have flexibility and good conditions. That might include better designed office layouts with quiet working spaces.

Sorry but this is such a bollocks argument. For decades people have been taking whole days off going on the piss on "team building events" or "client lunches" or golf or whatever under the guise of "networking" or "client entertainment". Often costing the company thousands of pounds in hospitality costs plus lost time. Yes there's arguably a benefit if this brings in new business but its pretty unscientific, is often a waste of money and is massively abused as an excuse for people to have jollies on the company purse.

Yet someone stepping away from their desk for five minutes to put a load of washing on do a local school run is apparently stealing from their boss? Even when its done on break or flexi time?

What's the difference here? The first is usually blokes and the second is usually women.

There are genuine social justifications for getting people back to the office but the "stealing from your employer" thing is hogwash.

How many times do I have to reiterate that often parents are doing pick ups and drop offs, washing, unloading the dishwasher etc etc in their commuting time NOT working time. I'm not stealing from my employer by using time I would otherwise be using to wait for a (often delayed) train, or being on said train, or getting a coffee before work. I'm at my home desk earlier than I would be at my office desk. Ahhh but no, I'm slacking because I'm not present in an office where I don't actually interact with anyone about actual work anymore than I do when at home

Exactly. This sharp intake of breath if you admit to doing any domestic work in your lunch break for being a "theft of time", whereas if you were in the office you would be spending a couple of hours chatting to people about what you saw on on Netflix and going to buy sandwiches and making endless tea rounds.

Somehow its completely acceptable if you work in an office and not if you're at home? It just doesn't stand up to rational scrutiny.

And the people who parrot on about "theft of time" invariably fritter away hours in the office with pointless busywork and meetings.

And the first is usually more senior employees whilst the latter is more lower paid staff.

Work from home gig is on its way out. Too many people took the piss for too long, and they’ve been found out.

I haven't been found out. I've been working (mostly) from home, usually minimum 12 hour days with exercise on top for four years and I've been promoted twice in that time.

People can take the piss in the office too you know?

Noone is working 100% of their hours per day. It would mena you never went to the toilet, got food or drink.

You are supposed to take regular breaks away from your screen whether you are at home or in the office. So in the office those might end up being going to make tea, that chat at your desk when someone pops by, or that quick chat when you pass someone on your way to toilet, kitchen etc. Similarly at home it'll be getting food, toilet breaks and making drinks and if there is noone at home then all your missing is the conversation aspect.

Based on that noine is shirking off more than the other.

However some people wfh have been taking the piss and over an above normal breaks when they should be working are sleeping, cleaning their house, childcare, going to shops to buy food or watching tv.

Tbh I prefer going to the office its more definitive in terms of start and end time. Once I've left then it's clear I'm not going to be working later in the evening or staying beyond 5pm if the merting overruns. Whereas at home meetings drifted over and it was easier to let it, people didn't mind as they were already at home so ended up working more.

Plus for me I just cannot shrink my world down to the walls of my house, yes okay you can go for a walk but it's not the same as travelling (commuting) somewhere

“give your head a wobble” people actually say this??

I’m assuming that you are one of the lucky people who have never had any Mental Health issues? Long may that continue for you..

I’m not sure where you got that from.

I’m saying that it’s in the employers best interest to consider employees mental health and wellbeing when making decisions

You don't think that being remote from the people you manage might impact how effective management is?

Have you always worked at this one job, or ever done something different, like worked in a fast food environment, or a civil service office, or anything?

Have you really never heard this said before?

in real life? Never!!! Only ever read it on mumsnet!

I have many and varied mental health problems and I say give your head a wobble!

I doubt unions will help those people, since childcare is a legitimate reason for flexible working requests (not just theoretically, it is treated as one at jpm) they also basically give a day a fortnight, over 20 a year as flex for adhoc things, and you can put short term extra flex in for school holidays or family illness. The complaints are from people saying I can’t do this because I’d have to commute!! And we should get paid extra to commute an hour to work!! Good luck getting your union to push your case for that argument.

And who took care of him when you got home?

Oh, I don’t mean that she is saying anything offensive by saying “give your head a wobble”, but I am saying that i have never heard anyone say the phrase in real life! It’s such a mumsnet cliche

Is this real?
Says it all

There could be a tax problem with people relocating for large portions of the year.

I have never in 35 years of working spent 2 hours talking about Netflix or any other non work chat
I am all for some flexibility ,but essentially I think the employer decides where they want the staff to work from and if staff aren't happy they move on

I definitely have occasionally had long and totally unwork related chats with colleagues, both in the office and other teams.

Those chats aren't pointless, they are part of what makes you feel like a team, part of what roots you in a work place. Other days I might intensely and flat out.

But if we dismiss all the intangible benefits of chats with colleagues then work becomes sterile. I expect that where people get on well with colleagues there is much better workplace retention

As a manager I was always pleased to see some chat between the team, or those in other teams. It's those chats that build a team far more than an occasional away day does