To think the call back into the office is an example of the patriarchy very much alive and well?

[Yestttlo]

And anyone who thinks otherwise is either brainwashed by the patriarchy or isn’t a mother with a huge proportion of child related responsibility on her shoulders? (Or someone who is in a job where they can’t work from home so don’t want to support other women having the right to).

I have worked from home since covid. Been in the office eight times where it was necessary, for instance a company away day or face to face client meeting. I have a young dc and the call back to the office will damage my career progression due to time spent travelling which means I can’t be online longer and because I will be stretched to get household stuff done .. no I don’t mean I clean the toilets during work hours but that I can put a wash on first thing and know I can unload it at lunch, or get cooking done for the evening during my lunch break which means my evening is not chaotic and I can actually rest a little before starting in full force again the next day.

I will be fighting it to the very end. I will make my views clear. I strongly believe that forcing people into offices hugely disproportionately affects women. My work can be done anywhere. Forcing back into offices is a neon sign that the patriarchy is alive and well. Thoughts?

Are you saying that you want your employer to flex around your needs, and if they don’t they are ‘ the patriarchy’? What about other women employees who have different needs which might not be compatible with yours? ( e.g women who don’t have children) If the employer cannot reconcile these, is it simply because they are ‘ the patriarchy’?

Nonsense. I imagine employers want people back in the office due to the massive amount of those taking the piss and in effect working part time for a full time salary. We've seen enough threads about it here. If I were an employer I would want this, that is employees to return to what they agreed to when given the job. I know not everyone is a pisstaker but as usual dishonest folks ruin it for others.

💯 I recall some of the early headlines pushing back on WFH towards the end of the pandemic were very often openly complaining about it on the basis of corporate landlords and Pret were taking a hit so we need to go back to the office 🤦🏽‍♀️ they basically said the quiet part out loud.

They’re a bit more subtle / clever now as they weren’t getting much support with that initial angle, so they regrouped and came back with a whole raft of other reasons they use to push the narrative of why WFH is bad.

OP I”ve read your posts and I think your view that WFH and policies against it are patriarchal are just wrong. I get you want to work from home and it’s easier for you but your private life isn’t your business life.

I have worked for many female directors of very large multinational companies who are worse than men in their views about being in the office and having a life outside of work. Your view while true to your experience isn’t an across the board in all businesses patriarchal and it doesn’t make people who have different experiences wrong.

You want to work from home. Perfectly fine. Your employer doesn’t. It isn’t because of being patriarchal but rather it is better for the business. You may not think so amd you are entitled to think this but the people who run companies do including a lot of women. I”m one of them. It doesn’t make me wrong or brainwashed by some patriarchal view.

Its great yiu want to fight this and think you are right but if what you say is true there is no way your company will allow this and you probably know it so you have manifested a discriminatory response to fit your narrative.

I think you are on a road to nowhere and will fall on your sword. But if it’s worth it to you then all good, but please don’t speak for women amd generalise every business while suggesting we are wrong if we don’t agree with your view.

Agree with all of this. Part time job on full time pay sums it up.

"...create huge open spaces with hot desking. I really struggled with the change, I found it very difficult to focus when people were holding conference calls a few feet away, or gathering to chat near my desk."

I have exactly the same issue and that's precisely why I left the job that I mentioned in my post.

It also didn't help that we had to go down to the head office in the Prudential building in London once a week. Never managed to ever get any work done then.

So jealous you've got a DH who can hang a wash properly 😂 mine can't seem to understand items need shaking out before shoving them on the airer😅 I was hoping to get a WFH job myself because of childcare and location issues so am gutted if this happens

You are so reaching here.

WFH is totally ruining so many areas of business
case in point
call my insurance company pre COVID
all in the office, just put though to the person
or someone else named if they where busy
now it’s oh we will email them and have them return your call
every dam thing takes longer
it’s bonkers

I also like being at home so I get to see outside. We don't have windows in the office and I find it sort of disorienting especially when it's winter and dark
No chance to skive, calls come through automatically and I have hundreds a day

If you think you are all great working from home, then if I were your'e boss I would ourtsource the lot of you to India and get your job done at 1/3 of the cost and at twice the productivity.

That's what the Government is really worried about, a total offshoring of our entire service economy... or haven't you woken up to that thought yet. When you are all redundant, you will have all the time in the world to switch on that load of washing.

That's certainly not my perception in Cambridgeshire.

There was a trial here where they got people to work 80% of their hours for 100% of their pay if they reached 100% of their targets.

It was said to be a great success. But I really do wonder how realistic government targets are if everybody can complete 100% of their work in 80% of their hours.

And those poor fuckers wouldnt need to take their stupid lockdown dog out for a walk and a piss at noon every day.

You’re right. Put it this way - there’s a reason why my employer has tier-1 support for front office staff based in the UK, and tier-2/3 for middle/back office based in India…

Wouldn’t that be a good reason for a flex request? Just like childcare is a good reason for a flex request legally.

Basiiiiiically, WFH came in in lockdown and it was a boon. Everyone was scared shitless of this deadly disease and killing their granny. It worked well at the time and office space was rationalised. Then the virus got less deadly and many companies stuck with WFH while sites closed. People thought the good times were here to stay, bought stupid lockdown dogs, got into routines with school drop offs and pick ups, realised loads of jobs could be done concurrently like washing and drying etc. Alas managers realised staff were taking the piss and WFH had become a bit of a touch, so slowly started a hybrid model followed by a full move back in some cases. Many thought it would never happen but thank goodness it has, both for peoples MH and productivity.

Just a question WFH, if you job is WFH you are generally still contracted to your office hours to be available for other team members/customers.
How do people do the school run when it is inside office hours? Also young children and work don't mix.

@Jennaveeve correct. I don’t want to farm out my child all hours possible because my employer can’t be flexible. Again, being a parent and having childcare responsibilities should be honoured. It’s not because it’s seen as the women’s job.

???Oh! So the expectation is to work whilst looking after small children?? Childcare was never seen as a women's job in my household, it was a shared responsibility. Anyone can request flexible working to accommodate childcare and it doesn't piss off other team members men or women 😂

Money talks ... it's just a matter of time.

I've got several British friends who are working in Indian call centres providing a familiar feel. They tell me that customer are always surprised when they tell them it's lovely weather where they are. It' silently growing and we aren't even aware of it.

I worked in one open plan office that was brilliant. It was basically very under occupied and I could sit at a desk and not have any one next to me on the next desk. We all respected each others space so would distribute ourselves accordingly so as not to bunch up together. It was also large enough that you could find more quiet areas of the office. Because it was essentially a small team in a large office it was rarely that loud anyway.

There were also multiple small meeting rooms you could either book or just pop into. There was usually at least a couple available. The heat /AC was easy to adjust in these rooms .

There was also an amazing free coffee machine 😆 it was honestly a rare find. I have never worked in an office that compares to that before or since!!

I find most open plan offices are just noisy and full of distractions. Often the toilets can be disgusting too which makes me uncomfortable 🤢 and the office space is too hot or too cold for some of us. Not to mention having to hot desk which is a nightmare as I need to be in corners away from busy aisles.

Why can’t people accept that some of us work better at home? I’m ND but I’m sure many NT work better at home too.

We have monthly meetings on Teams and also 1-1s every 2 weeks. There's also a company wide monthly meeting online.
I know much more about what's happening now than I did before COVID.

The other problem is that even if everyone is working conscientiously, many workplaces need at least some people in the office regularly. So how do you decide who gets the privilege of WFH and who doesn't?

In the OPs world it seems to be the employee who makes the most stink.

'the call back to the office will damage my career progression due to time spent travelling which means I can’t be online longer'

So you're only progressing in your career by working extra hours (around office hours when you'd be commuting)?

And you're not breastfeeding .... and your husband needs to start pulling his weight.

I'm all for wfh but your arguments sound petty and agressive.

I feel that you're one of the main people who is upholding the patriarchy tbh, particularly as you're the one who wants to wfh in order to do chores and childcare.

I doubt that there are many men who have ever said it would be useful to wfh in order to be able to put on a load of washing, for example.