To think the call back into the office is an example of the patriarchy very much alive and well?

[Yestttlo]

And anyone who thinks otherwise is either brainwashed by the patriarchy or isn’t a mother with a huge proportion of child related responsibility on her shoulders? (Or someone who is in a job where they can’t work from home so don’t want to support other women having the right to).

I have worked from home since covid. Been in the office eight times where it was necessary, for instance a company away day or face to face client meeting. I have a young dc and the call back to the office will damage my career progression due to time spent travelling which means I can’t be online longer and because I will be stretched to get household stuff done .. no I don’t mean I clean the toilets during work hours but that I can put a wash on first thing and know I can unload it at lunch, or get cooking done for the evening during my lunch break which means my evening is not chaotic and I can actually rest a little before starting in full force again the next day.

I will be fighting it to the very end. I will make my views clear. I strongly believe that forcing people into offices hugely disproportionately affects women. My work can be done anywhere. Forcing back into offices is a neon sign that the patriarchy is alive and well. Thoughts?

I'm a full time parent to young kids, both are in school. I regularly fill the school day doing the laundry, making sure tea is ready so we can eat quickly and get out for extra curriculars, doing school picks ups and drop offs, walking the dog and going to the gym. All things a lot of people seem to think they can also do whilst working at home. Although I'd say my days are relaxed in the sense that I'm not running around in a sense of panic and overwhelm trying to get things done, my days are certainly busy and I'm not bored. My husband works from home, and because he is working so intensely, as he would in an office, I'm lucky if he has chance pull the laundry out to stick it in the tumbler. If people are doing just a number of these things whilst WFH they are literally losing hours of productivity on WFH days, if this is an employees reasoning for wanting to WFH, heck I'd want them back in the office too. I can understand how the lack of commute is a huge benefit though. E.g, you can drop the kids at school and still get back to start work for 9. When I do finally go back to work, I hope to work part time in a "physical" office/ workplace where I can foster adult social relationships and develop new skills - Both things I have missed greatly whilst being at home. I'll actively be looking for that and I don't think I'm alone in wanting it. Sometimes I think people who are so adamant they need/want to WFH, just actually need to be SAHP. I wish the government would make this an option for more families through tax reform.

Yes, there is a huge difference between private and public sector.

Also, more and more people are starting to complain about public sector workers wfh and it affecting services.

for me personally wfh was like winning the lotto for me. I live in the country and never ever knew what it was like not to have to drive ages to work in my life. always at least an hour. I would.often get up at 5 or half 5 in morning to beat traffic ( no such thing as public transport here ) I would be asleep by half 8 if wanst coming in the door at that time on the sofa. everything at home was farmed out if my husband couldn't do it. cleaning shopping ironing dog walking etc. and I don't have children I wouldn't do anything in eve mon to Fri would say no straight away. weekends spent catching up on everything. when wfh came in after a month it was like a new life for me. I lost weight I slept better I ate better while still getting my work done. I was able to sit on the sofa and watch telly at 6 in the eve 😱 only ever happened when I was on hols. I saw what my life could be. I am in my job now 6 years and have been working remotely 5 years nearly . in that time I have been paid full productive bonus achieved all my targets projects etc. going in one day a week the past 2 years. current commute is 1.5 hours to 2 hours each way. I feel very tired after commuting days and only go into office to show my face. no one else does my job in my office. no could train me even I started before covid my training was done virtually by people based in pitcher countries. so I had to get used to quickly learning virtually and on my own. quite common in my company. the past 2 years head office have slowly got rid of certain departments aswell. finance hr payroll etc are all in other countries so of you have issue you have no choice but to email raise a ticket etc. its not face to face. all external training now done on line to save expense. so all this talk of collaboration etc is bull. my company is now mandating three days a week in site announced Dec. 200 people on company and already 3 critical people handed in notice. when I saw the mail my heart sank I am not going back to my pre covid life. my life 100 times better wfh and I am still doing my work achieving target and have good working relationships with my team. my cv is prepped and have an interview next week for a remote job. companies are going to struggle to get specific staff. High turn-over damages companies especially in specific fields. in our American team they have been struggling 9 months to replace 2 staff who have left for a remote job ( one actually is working remote for a UK company 😆) treat people like adults and they will reward you treat like children the they will act like children. the world has changed roll.with it. when I am talking to recruitment agencies hr now the 1st thing I ask is the wfh flexibility policy not salary

Yes - because the OP talks specifically about her dh, if you read the comment that I replied to.

Yeh it’s definitely not. I’m glad I’m not wasting my money on coffee anymore. Ok I didn’t have to before but when stuck at freezing train stations or a bit peckish after a long day at work due to yet another delayed train etc it was rather tempting to pop into pret or Starbucks. I don’t miss the long queues, dirty tables, indoor space filled with wet dogs and frequently not heated properly etc

People skive, work quality and productivity are right down, new staff have a much harder time feeling integrated, much less team spirit and comradeship in the office, lots of resentment towards parents who do childcare when they should be working. It's a terrible idea to wfh continually. A day or two a week is doable for the conscientious.

100%.

what is your expertise to say it's not a proper job ??? how do you know where they are sitting? do you have a camera on them ? you can run a business from anywhere in the world. it can be run from your phone
who bloody cares where the work is being done aa long as work is being done
and if its not being done the the managers are not doing their jobs properly!!!

“Sitting in the office” isn’t proper work? Is this for or against WFH? 😂

Wfh is a leveller for lots of people - people with disabilities, people with caring responsibilities, reduces location issues - so reduces north south divide.

My dh wfh full time prior to covid and I am now hybrid - I love hybrid, best of both worlds.

Public sector have been getting rid of offices to save money. There are no offices to return to. They have also been reducing staff but not the work that needs to be done

Im talking about friends who work in private as well. My husband works in insurance and they have to go in, once a week. That’s it! I love my day in the office, and I love my days at home. Lots of benefits to both. I just didn’t know if there was a big call back that I have missed

I'm a full time parent to young kids, both are in school. I regularly fill the school day doing the laundry, making sure tea is ready so we can eat quickly and get out for extra curriculars, doing school picks ups and drop offs, walking the dog and going to the gym. All things a lot of people seem to think they can also do whilst working at home. Although I'd say my days are relaxed in the sense that I'm not running around in a sense of panic and overwhelm trying to get things done, my days are certainly busy and I'm not bored. My husband works from home, and because he is working so intensely, as he would in an office, I'm lucky if he has chance pull the laundry out to stick it in the tumbler. If people are doing just a number of these things whilst WFH they are literally losing hours of productivity on WFH days

I am also a full time parent, I don't stop being a parent when I am at work, in the same way you are still a parent when your children are at school.

Anyone who is doing all the things you're doing when they say they're wfh are taking the piss. They'd probably be like that in the office as well. Or they have terrible management who aren't monitoring their work (I'm sure someone will pop up and say they can do all those things AND work and it's all OK, but those people are rare I think).

Your DH needs to take a few breaks. If he is not taking a break long enough to make a cup of tea (when you can then move washing to dryer) it's not healthy.

I fully agree with you. But that's not whay the OP is arguing and I don't think getting people back into the office is patriarchal.

Having good virtual team interaction is key to making it work imo both for new colleagues and to keep a good team atmosphere.

It’s funny how some employers insisted they carry on and not take furlough and carried on doing everything as usual, WFH was “proper work” and they told customers it’s business as usual.

Now the pandemic is over now it’s “oh it’s not possible to work from home ”. Hmm they should’ve told their staff that during the pandemic!

My friends job (banking) once COVID was done was to go through all her teams to track how much work they were actually doing. Others were doing the same with their teams.

It all went to head office . The lazy ones were eased out. But it was a minority taking the mick

Completely agree. I feel wfh has set women back decades.

Artesia · Today 19:24

Totally disagree. WFH traps women into having to do it all. Unless both partners are wfh and splitting the jobs equally. But how many men talk about enjoying wfh because they can pop a wash on at lunchtime?

This.

And taking care of elderly FIL who is seen as being the "woman's responsibility". WORKING is no excuse for ignoring one's duties to everyone...

Exactly and now they’re scapegoating WFH for delays. Started with the Tories but Labour seem to be carrying it on.

YANBU. WFH is great and I love it. I’m supposed to be in 1 day a week but I average about 1 day every 6 weeks at the moment. I actually get far more done at home despite what the Daily Mail says as my IT set up is so good. Plus, if I work from home, I don’t have to spend ages finding a desk and logging on (only to find out the computer doesn’t work).

Excatly

I agree. Saying ‘ employers are the patriarchy’ is far too simplistic, and opens itself to ridicule. Patriarchy is an ideology, which manifests itself in all sorts of places and all sorts of people. And then to say that anyone who doesn’t believe that ‘employers are the patriarchy’ are just ‘ brainwashed’, and to insult people who disagree is itself a dangerous ideology. Surely there are more effective ways of challenging patriarchal ideas in the workplace.

This.

Maybe but the point is not every household is like that.. and what’s needed is more flexibility from employers not less if you want people to be in the workforce.