To think the call back into the office is an example of the patriarchy very much alive and well?

[Yestttlo]

And anyone who thinks otherwise is either brainwashed by the patriarchy or isn’t a mother with a huge proportion of child related responsibility on her shoulders? (Or someone who is in a job where they can’t work from home so don’t want to support other women having the right to).

I have worked from home since covid. Been in the office eight times where it was necessary, for instance a company away day or face to face client meeting. I have a young dc and the call back to the office will damage my career progression due to time spent travelling which means I can’t be online longer and because I will be stretched to get household stuff done .. no I don’t mean I clean the toilets during work hours but that I can put a wash on first thing and know I can unload it at lunch, or get cooking done for the evening during my lunch break which means my evening is not chaotic and I can actually rest a little before starting in full force again the next day.

I will be fighting it to the very end. I will make my views clear. I strongly believe that forcing people into offices hugely disproportionately affects women. My work can be done anywhere. Forcing back into offices is a neon sign that the patriarchy is alive and well. Thoughts?

Love MN you always get angry people… who take everything so seriously

Bravo, bravo, bravo, bravo

I think it is the opposite. WFH means you have to do all the housework and childcare as well as your job. It is less respected. You are stuck at home while people in the office are making all the connections (personal as well as professional), getting promoted and getting paid more.

If it is true that more woman do wfh roles, then the patriarchy have outdone themselves. Not only do they have woman being mothers and housewives, they have found a way for them to earn money whilst continuing to be under appreciated.

No, it's down to community and the former office workers formed much of that community.

You think you having to go into the office is “The Patriarchy” hahahaha ok

Personally I work much harder at home because I can focus more than in the office without all the chit chat.
I'm a lawyer, my productivity is directly measurable due to billable hours. I bill about 30% more when at home.
But I do enjoy going into the office, which I do once a week.
I can tell you that I can either spend my lunch break at home hanging up washing, or I can walk around Selfridges when in the office. But the washing is more relaxing I would say.
My husband cooks every evening so we do divide chores.
But WFH is essential to my life because of the nursery drop off and pick up. If I couldn't work from home I would have had to have employed a full time nanny or worked shortened hours.
I got promoted on mat leave so, so far it hasn't hindered me.
Team WFH!

Completely agree, the overall main group of people affected here, will be working mothers.

Doing it All, is just burnout waiting to happen.

I think the sweet spot is 2 days in the office so you can bond and support newer and less experienced people, flexible hours, nobody taking the piss (ha), and reasonable adjustments where required.

So if you have decided everyone who disagrees with you is wrong, what is the point of asking us?

So sorry that this happened to your family. There should always be flexibility to allow for situations like yours.

wfh is crap for young people
High housing and travel costs plus garbage wages that don't allow employees to live safely within reasonable commuting distance of the office are crap for young people

why do you think 2 days at home is normal? if job has been done effectively at home the past number years then why can't it it continue.
there is nothing normal

My husband mostly WFH means no wasted time in the morning and evening commuting, so he can make dinner for and eat with our children. Our work/life balance as a family is so much better as a result. I dread a patrichal call-back. Men at the top not seeing the bigger picture - a wider selection of available, diverse candidates - is a real problem. So much squandered talent and loss of better ways of working.

Cos sitting in the office/kitchen/spare room isn't proper work.

Its taking the piss and companies have finally realised.

Women fought to get into offices and visible roles. Generations of women. Now they seem to want to become invisible because the school run will be a bit easier, or they'll be able to a few household tasks between zoom calls, or perhaps it is just a bit more of a doss.

We will lose all ground gained by doing this. Don't blame the employers who are probably just waving the contracts you signed. Blame crap decisions or the crap men who you've had kids with who don't do what they should in parenting or the running of the homes.

Because the employers do not think the job is being done properly . It only takes one or two people to slack off and take the piss and it ruins it for everyone because the employers cant just say to those slackers that they need to come in so they say it to everyone .

Same for me. I’m a teacher so can’t WFH. Husband has 2-3 days at home each week so I can do longer nights and I finish at 3:30 on his office days. Game changer for child care. And yes he puts on a wash and meal preps during lunch, or hoovers, or whatever needs done. His penis doesn’t get in the way, somehow.

Women fought for choice… but that’s something very few have now apart from the very wealthy. Some want to work in the office, some want to work at home, some want to be be stay at home parents.. but alas we have been robbed of that choice!

What a lot of people on this thread aren’t getting is that most companies are in central city locations now, usually taking over an hour on expensive and unreliable public transport to reach.

These extra 2-3 hours commute often mean childcare, those with disabilities, those with carer responsibilities or those without means to travel are unable to work.

Ultimately an office only culture is rather ableist and rewards those able to make the journey and schmooze with their colleagues. People do take the mick wfh but that’s the fault of poor management not monitoring or training staff or abiding to adequate metrics to measure performance.

Lastly, due to the 30 hours free childcare some of us are now having to prematurely leave the workforce as we cant get childcare and most of us earn less than our male partners so get the short straw. Company structures are also set up for full timers which are usually men. In my baby group, I’m saddened that over 5 new mothers already are talking about leaving the workforce as there’s no childcare. Add in a long commute when most childminders in my area stop work at 4:30, it means more women leave the workforce. The local school breakfast club doesn’t start till 8!

So I do see OPs point. It’s easy to say ‘where’s the man’ but this is the state of our society in its current form.

So is it the return of the push for breast feeding that has re enslaved women then? Seems to be used as a reason for lots of things despite maternity and paternity leaves being better than ever.

that's bad management then and not being dealt with properly. to rephrase an often quoted mumnenst phrase you dint have a remote working policy issue you have a bad management issue.

strictly speaking wfh only really came about as much as it did due to covid, unless you agreed the wfh role from the beginning then how was it a choice ?

"He is an extraordinarily intelligent and gifted professional..."

With respect, that is a very extreme edge case. Also, didn't Professor Stephen Hawking - the guy had motor neurone disease and I believe he was in a wheelchair by his 30s - manage to work in an office every day of the week?

If Stephen Hawking can come up with string theory while in a wheelchair and going into an office every day of the week, I'm not too sure what your colleague has to worry about.

Or are you just worrying on his behalf?

Why does doing the same in a vast open plan office make it more real work?

Agreed. And I think in many cases women end up looking unprofessional because they are trying to do several things at once. Over the last three years I've had a number of straightforward calls mysteriously cut out after it's become clear there's a child or pet demanding attention.