To ask why employers will bully, stomp and bribe with lunch vouchers to make staff go back to the office

[Everythingisnumbersnow]

But won't in any way make the office a nicer place to be?

Hotdesk serfdom is real.

Just give people a space and treat them like humans?

Creative collaboration absolutely requires being in the same space. It’s well nigh impossible to brainstorm (or whatever the in vogue term for it is) if the participants aren’t in the same room. Work should be about being productive not comfortable.

I disagree with this. It’s perfectly possible to creatively collaborate remotely. Even ignoring people WFH, we have people working in different office locations and I don’t think I’ve ever had a meeting with my current team where we’ve all managed to be in the same place at the same time.

Ideally hybrid is best for me.

I love working from home. But sometimes on tricker parts of work I just want to be able to ask the teams input and show eachother. It takes half a day to work things out when it's over messages and trying to describe it over a video. So for most of my job it's great but on training and learning new bits even just allocating an hour together with everyone is great. I know in some jobs that's not an issue, but it depends on the work.

Also I find when I work from home people seem to not acknowledge I'm working..so every few mins DH waltzes in asking to do xyz..sort the kids out quickly as they aren't listening. Then my job i should finish in 20 mins takes longer and stupid mistakes can happen as I'm interrupted constantly, so i like being able to go into the office so I can just focus and have everything i need in one room 😅 also even when you chat about work people just assume it's easier work or voluntary work as its from home..even though I do the exact same work in the office 😂

Must depend a lot on your sector but in mine the under 30s basically refuse to come in. I do worry that the suffering of my youth helped me develop a lot of coping mechanisms they won't get to build but tough to prescribe stress and discomfort on the offchance it might make you into a bruiser down the line!

Agree. I also think "brainstorming" (aka the only reason they still have a market for post-it notes) is not a great way to get sensible decisions in a lot of industries.

If I get called back in full time, currently hybrid, bang goes the early morning and evening Teams meetings with China, India and the US, I shall work my paid hours and no more, currently give more than my commute back in time. I’m also wary of companies insisting on full RTO as they can also use it as a headcount reduction exercise banking on people leaving of their own free will and avoid having to pay severance/redundancy.

It’s a brilliant way to develop ideas in creative industries. Clearly you don’t work in one.

Agree. I also think "brainstorming" (aka the only reason they still have a market for post-it notes) is not a great way to get sensible decisions in a lot of industries.

Fundamentally misunderstanding brainstorming.

That too.

Well, I have had social anxiety all my life and it never went away. I was just forced to do awful things while blousey types insisted it was for my own good (Google translate for THEIR good).

It's absolutely awesome not having to interact so much for some people and going back to the office isn't a cure just a lifetime of unnecessary bad experiences.

There isn't a magical significance to the word.

God offices were like being trapped in linkedin now I think about it

'BIossomtoes · Today 14:01

Creative collaboration absolutely requires being in the same space. It’s well nigh impossible to brainstorm (or whatever the in vogue term for it is) if the participants aren’t in the same room. Work should be about being productive not comfortable.'

Untrue.

Most of my career has been in media, design, comms and marketing which requires creativity and I often do 'brainstorming' sessions remotely.

No need whatsoever to be in the same room these days.

Also considering companies may have teams based abroad and/or in various parts of the UK, technology is the best way to bring people together.

Ugh I hate hotdesking. We have a job where you need to have everything set up a certain way. I find it soul destroying and don't feel like I belong. I miss having a pic or a plant on my desk.

I dropped off a friend last week as she's (hopefully) temporarily unable to drive and the firm wants them back in the office at least 3 days a week. She managed to get this down to 2, but last week I dropped her off - 10 minutes later she calls to say that there weren't enough work stations and she had been sent home!

We're going to become a society of Hikikomori if we don't watch it.

Not really we just get to control who we see and how and when.

For much of MN that seems to be at a distance and almost never.

Funnily enough, I've just been talking with ds over facetime and he said that his company are going to demand they go in four times a week from April. He has adhd and will struggle with this, so he's job hunting right now and says he won't stay if they insist upon this. I mentioned about disability and 'reasonable adjustments', but he doesn't want to go down that route.

Putting aside the amusing use of the word "cavalier" there, you can be thoughtless, cavalier elitist and correct.

Incidentally, the coming of the motor car did not lead to a complete extinction of horses. In the same way increased WFH won't lead to the end of roles that can't be done WFH.

However in a country obsessed to the point of fetish about "efficiency" it is highly suspicious that the one inefficiency few people talk about is the wasted time commuting. Which can add an extra 25% to a working week.

Has anyone run some modelling to see what reducing a persons free time by 25% does to the economy ? And if they haven't, why the fuck not ? Afraid of what they will find ?

I imagine that many employers will just say you're free to work elsewhere if you don't like the terms of your contract.

Which can add an extra 25% to a working week.

Has anyone run some modelling to see what reducing a persons free time by 25% does to the economy ? And if they haven't, why the fuck not ? Afraid of what they will find ?

'...can add' is doing some heavy lifting. Google (and I haven't checked) says the average commute in the UK is 27 minutes. Unless you work less than a 2 hour day, lucky you, that isn't 25%.

I'm a retired nurse so wfh was never going to be an option. However I'm always surprised that the environmental impact of reducing commuting traffic is never mentioned when talking about wfh.
I also think women in particular need to be really mindful that their work is important and not rush about doing all the homework school runs while the person not at home has a much lighter load.
Just how it's reading from all previous posts about wfh.
It also just plays into the wfh equals not working agenda that's being pushed .
Surely a mix that suits both employees and employers is the way forward.

An hours commute each way a day (which I have done on occasion) is 8 hours on a 40 hour week. Which is 20%. And I have worked with colleagues whose commute could average 90 minutes.

Anyway we're just arguing over the price, to channel George Bernard Shaw.

And if their highly skilled staff all do so then what

However I'm always surprised that the environmental impact of reducing commuting traffic is never mentioned when talking about wfh.

Funny, that. It's almost as if climate change is less a real thing and more an excuse when it's needed ... very unreasonable of some people to think that.