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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask why employers will bully, stomp and bribe with lunch vouchers to make staff go back to the office

276 replies

Everythingisnumbersnow · 11/01/2025 10:55

But won't in any way make the office a nicer place to be?

Hotdesk serfdom is real.

Just give people a space and treat them like humans?

OP posts:
babbi · 11/01/2025 13:18

We have a brand new manager this week who has ordered everyone back into the office .
(My contract is 100 % work from home so I’m completely unaffected )
I’m definitely not looking forward to covering the staff shortage situation coming at pace due to the amount of people who have dusted off their CV s and are actively hunting .

Oh and we haven’t got enough desks for everyone to sit at …but let’s cut him a bit of slack for not knowing this as he issued this command on his 3rd day 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Great start 🙄
A few of us advised that we live so far away ( near to the clients that we are allocated ) that we would need to turn around and drive back home before we reached the office to ensure we only worked an 8 hour day 🤣🤣
I live 5 hours away so it’s always an over night job !!

It doesn’t bode well but I’ve been round the block I’ll enjoy the floor show 🙈😆😆

TheNinkyNonkyIsATardis · 11/01/2025 13:21

Abracadabra12345 · 11/01/2025 11:08

Managed properly, surely hybrid hits the sweet spot, and benefits everyone including the reluctant

Well, it's all in the first two words, isn't it?

My company does hybrid, but everyone can pick their own hours and days 7am-9pm.

So I'm supposed to be in the office to collaborate, but everyone is always doing their own thing. I've managed to do two in person meetings since I started there.

A far better model I worked with before was a mandatory two days in per fortnight for the team. You could come in together as much as you liked in the interim, but had to have two planning/collab days every other week.

Nothatgingerpirate · 11/01/2025 13:22

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Well, life ain't no fairytale!
😊

DreamW3aver · 11/01/2025 13:24

Nothatgingerpirate · 11/01/2025 13:08

No, they really won't.
They will gradually replace these "WFH" employees with cheap Asian labour or AI.
Cannot wait for that!
😜
(I don't work, so no bitterness, funding myself).

Its coming up to 5 years now, are there any signs of this happening? How much longer are they going to give it?

Everythingisnumbersnow · 11/01/2025 13:26

MidnightPatrol · 11/01/2025 12:46

And you are entitled to find a job elsewhere, if the terms of your current job don’t suit you.

Or to use employee power to force change

This will happen anyway in due course - gen z hates the office and sees teams as normal

OP posts:
Everythingisnumbersnow · 11/01/2025 13:29

TonTonMacoute · 11/01/2025 12:52

Those Mumsnetters of around my age will have studied the EM Forster short story The Machine Stops. It's a dystopian vision of the future that we are heading towards at frightening speed.

So many people seem to regard any human interaction as some sort of invasion of privacy, if not a near-assault. It's bizarre.

YOU think it's bizarre. You are failing to consider that other people have different perspectives. And that's why I dislike interacting with people I don't choose. Back in the day I had to put up with office politics, gossip, catty "that's weird why are you doing that?". I don't know anything about most of my colleagues and that's the way I like it.

OP posts:
Fluffycloudsfloatinginthesky · 11/01/2025 13:34

Abracadabra12345 · 11/01/2025 11:08

Managed properly, surely hybrid hits the sweet spot, and benefits everyone including the reluctant

Agree - I know I get a bit detached if I'm home too long without a visit to the office.

Nothatgingerpirate · 11/01/2025 13:37

DreamW3aver · 11/01/2025 13:24

Its coming up to 5 years now, are there any signs of this happening? How much longer are they going to give it?

The senior ones are saying it's eventually gonna happen.
I'm not saying it's a great thing, but there was no work from home in the past and people didn't complain.
Some laugh it off.

parrotpancake · 11/01/2025 13:40

@Nothatgingerpirate is right.

I live in a different country where the workforce is globalised and this is already happening. Jobs that were thought of as 'needing' native English speakers no longer are.

The people insisting their job can be done without a physical presence will be replaced by someone with great English skills from a lower-paid country.

No, it won't happen immediately but the trend is increasing as employers realise there is a huge amount of money to be saved. Which will lead to a downward pressure on salaries.

And that's not even touching on the impact of fully remote working on the training of new staff or mental health.

Zouks · 11/01/2025 13:42

During covid my employer got rid of our office. We now use a much, much smaller office space shared between about 20 teams where you hot desk, and there's only 3 meeting rooms that are fully booked up months in advance, and no smaller meeting rooms or private spaces.

Therefore 95% of meetings are still on teams. The open plan office space is a nightmare for teams meetings, background noise is picked up really easily, so you have a situation where people go into the office to catch up with colleagues but are constantly told to be quiet because someone else is presenting on teams. So you end up just sitting there in near silence or on teams meetings - you might as well be at home.

Also a lot of the time the IT equipment doesn't work, or you have a chair that is jammed and won't adjust, or you can't connect to the WiFi for some unknown reason, so you spend loads of time faffing about getting it sorted.

Also little things like no supplies in the kitchen (coffee and tea etc) unless you bring it in yourself every single time, we used to have a kitty and rota for this when we had our own office/desks.

We don't have a return to the office mandate, so I only go into the office when I have a face to face meeting because there isn't much of a benefit otherwise.

MrsTerryPratchett · 11/01/2025 13:42

Haven't RTFT in its entirety but I really am annoyed with this:

Now we know so much more about neurodiversity and inclusion of disability it's so disappointing that the "jocks" still prevail.

How silly. My team of 5 in a pressured, risky role is 4/5 staffed with people with ADHD. We were offered hybrid or flex/earned time off and all (the whole team) chose the latter. Because we would all become depressed and/or unproductive. Added to which we all learn from being around each other, support with challenging clients, informal training/mentoring of younger staff, it's very important.

Added to which it's such an old person, middle class priviledge. When you already have your own home, not a shared house. You have space, you have relationships, you have an established career. "WFH is great, I can stick a wash on and potter around my kitchen". Not if you live in one room in a craphole and use the laundrette you can't. Loneliness is as injurious to your health as smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Don't think of you WFH with your family and friends all established. Think of a 20 yo, just moved to a new place, new job, no partner, bedsit.

fivebyfivebuffy · 11/01/2025 13:43

boltt · 11/01/2025 11:03

I think it's sad that people don't even want to leave their houses anymore.

It's not always that
For me
Work is noisy and I struggle to hear customers
I don't speak to anyone if I'm in the office anyway as I'm busy working!
Commuting means getting up earlier and I struggle with fatigue, I can finish work at home and go straight to sleep for a few hours
Disability wise - home has everything I need, I can't plug in a heat pad at work and the toilet is private at home

There's a million reasons other than "I don't want to leave the house"

chocolatespreadsandwich · 11/01/2025 13:47

As someone who moved jobs recently, I only started settling in once there was a regular set team day in the office. I felt very isolated before then (and that's as someone with 20 years experience in my industry)

Those casual chats and encounters make a world of difference.

And I am disabled and need to work from home mainly, but I still go in for the team day whenever I possibly can

MrsTerryPratchett · 11/01/2025 13:47

gen z hates the office and sees teams as normal

Gen Z are reporting the highest levels of loneliness of any generation. www.shoutoutuk.org/2024/08/28/whats-making-gen-z-the-loneliest-generation/

Loneliness is a public health crisis.

Codlingmoths · 11/01/2025 13:47

Everythingisnumbersnow · 11/01/2025 11:32

That doesn't make any sense. The people who assert "the office is good for collaboration" just means they like it.

Now we know so much more about neurodiversity and inclusion of disability it's so disappointing that the "jocks" still prevail.

Work from home is bliss for me (and my team).

Some businesses work better with collaboration. My firm believes this and I agree- not 5 days perhaps but 3, sure. But my firm also went to a big effort to upgrade our office space and started offering breakfast and has a barista in the mornings to make it a nice place to turn up to work and collaborate.

ShadowsOfTheDays · 11/01/2025 13:47

MidnightPatrol · 11/01/2025 12:57

@TonTonMacoute its amazing how quickly work socialising has just… stopped?

Pre-covid it was so normal for people to go for a beer or similar. All ages.

Now, and particularly for those who I work with under 30, it’s just seen as a massive imposition and no one does it.

I have heard so many people talking about it - it’s quite sad really.

Very true.

So many threads on here before Christmas with people in absolute revolt at the thought of spending time with colleagues out of hours. Like, genuine horror.

I love my colleagues; some of my best friends are people I have worked with over the years.

My life would be much the poorer without those real life experiences and relationships.

But this attitude now seems to fall under the bullshit banner of self-care, which mostly seems to mean life is reserved for sitting on your couch by yourself and never interacting.

Everythingisnumbersnow · 11/01/2025 13:48

Codlingmoths · 11/01/2025 13:47

Some businesses work better with collaboration. My firm believes this and I agree- not 5 days perhaps but 3, sure. But my firm also went to a big effort to upgrade our office space and started offering breakfast and has a barista in the mornings to make it a nice place to turn up to work and collaborate.

Collaboration doesn't require an office. Many young people are more comfortable collaborating using the digital tools they have grown up with.

OP posts:
FuzzyWuzzyWuzABear · 11/01/2025 13:49

FatFiatMultiplaWhopper · 11/01/2025 13:07

I think it’s one of the reasons why we have such a mental health crisis and so much anxiety about talking to anyone too. Disaster.

Totally agree with this. People who rarely have to interact in person with others are bound to be less resilient and more fragile.

Yes, I can see a lot of young people going from being cooped up in their bedrooms 'socialising' online, to being cooped up working from home.

I do feel this is one of the causes of so much social anxiety.

Especially if they happen to also have socially anxious parents.

chocolatespreadsandwich · 11/01/2025 13:49

Everythingisnumbersnow · 11/01/2025 13:26

Or to use employee power to force change

This will happen anyway in due course - gen z hates the office and sees teams as normal

I disagree. It's our youngest employees who are most likely to go into the office more than the mandated minimum
They want the supervision and support and camaraderie. They are least likely to have a lovely little study set up at home. I love my working from home set up but it is a huge luxury to have it , I never forget that many in the teams I manage may live in shared accomodation or cramped flats

ViolinsPlayGentlyOn · 11/01/2025 13:49

Everythingisnumbersnow · 11/01/2025 12:11

Treasury literally has 6 desks for 10 staff.

So there should be enough desks for everyone to be in 3 times a week then, if attendance is equally spread across the week.

BobbyBiscuits · 11/01/2025 13:50

I don't know if it's something to do with my mental health or personality disorders but I find it very difficult to work when my direct supervisor or boss is next to me or opposite me, able to observe my every move.

I've managed to get around that in the past and at one point, by luck, I managed to commandeer a tiny office/library with one desk and a window and a lockable door. All for me! This was amazing and my work performance was great.

When I moved to a busier area, I actively made sure I sat away from the rest of my team. Otherwise I couldn't concentrate. If my boss came to my workstation I'd be shaking, unable to even drag the mouse or click on the right things.

I really feel like I can communicate just as well but be much more efficient when I'm not being physically observed.

ShadowsOfTheDays · 11/01/2025 13:51

I manage five people, and all the people in their 20s come into the office more than is really required, because they like it and prefer it. Actually one person applied for the job because her previous role was fully remote and she was lonely.

ViolinsPlayGentlyOn · 11/01/2025 13:53

It's our youngest employees who are most likely to go into the office more than the mandated minimum

Same here. The main people reluctant to go back seem to be the older, wealthier people who all moved further out during Covid.

MrsTerryPratchett · 11/01/2025 13:54

Many young people are more comfortable collaborating using the digital tools they have grown up with.

A lot of them have phobic avoidance of social situations. Because they've been raised digitally, overly dependent on parents not peers, gaming online, and haven't been forced, yes forced, into social situations to acclimatise.

The number of peers my teen DD has who 'can't' variously; talk to a teacher one-on-one, walk into a shop and buy something, do a club or sport. I'm a pretty low-demand parent but I expect DD to try to be outside her comfort zone to do normal tasks.

And there is already a recognised issue with young men, very isolated and very very maladapted. Socialised by the internet and never having the edges knocked off by working with women, POC, gay people. Locked in their rooms listening to hate. Doing everything online.

FuzzyWuzzyWuzABear · 11/01/2025 13:55

Everythingisnumbersnow · 11/01/2025 13:48

Collaboration doesn't require an office. Many young people are more comfortable collaborating using the digital tools they have grown up with.

Of course they're more comfortable staying inside their online bubbles, and not having to interact face to face with the outside world.

But does that mean it's good for them?

On the whole I'd say absolutely not.

Some Mumsnetters wont even answer the bloody door if they don't know who's knocking.

It's certainly not how I want my kids to grow up.

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