Do you expect other women to agree with you when you talk about the plight of women ?

[amijust]

And what do you think about the ones that just stay silent ? Every time it comes up ?

Just wondering, as I've noticed someone in my life is always entirely silent when these convos come up.

How would you feel about someone like that ?

A couple of examples that have come up :

• mental load being all on the woman a lot.

• housework being a woman's problem a lot to the time.

• at work, taking maternity leave and having kids often hurts a woman's career.

• working from home, isn't good for women as a whole because it means a lot to women pick up even more housework and tend to work from home more to ferry kids around, this in turn hurts their careers etc.

• being the default parent.

• workplaces not being set up for parents in general.

• women's health problems being largely ignored. Women being told to suck up extreme period pain for example.

• when women show emotion, being branded as hysterical etc etc

These are just some conversations that have come up around another woman I know ( no kids yet ). Other women have agreed / disagreed or engaged on the topics. This person stays entirely silent.

You’re not listening here and that’s indicative of your approach in these “discussions”. You want to turn social meet ups into ranting sessions about how crappy your bloke is and you’re turning on the woman who doesn’t “there there” you. Not the feminist ideal is it.

Weird not to engage in conversation one way or another, no matter the topic. She just sits there like a lemon?

Same here. "let's all sit round and slag off our husbands and whinge on about how useless men are hahahahahaha!"

Absolutely hate it.

Honestly, I wish more people WOULDN'T engage in conversations. Nobody needs more people talking. Everyone needs more people thinking.

Agree with this. I see it in work as well and I just politely zone out or grab something and leave. Sometimes you just want to enjoy your coffee and not discuss these things over and over again during your only free time.

Then ditch her as a friend and stop complaining about her.

Maybe thats not her experience op - it's certainly not mine and would not have agreed with you either. You sound obsessed - do you always talk about stuff like this? It's quite heavy and also to always expect a reply about it?! Maybe she just overwhelmed by your questions and not interested in it.

Sometimes I don't join in these types of conversations because I simply cannot be bothered. It could be as simple an explanation as that. Not everyone wants to have a deep and meaningful all the time.

I don’t expect other people, women or men, to always agree with me. And women have it better today than they did at any time in history. We can vote, own property, have a career etc. Maybe focus on the positives more instead of looking at all the negatives or what you perceive to be negative.

You can't expect people to chime in and agree if something isn't their experience. I can empathise with the plight of specific individuals, if someone complains to me about their own particular situation I will listen, but I'm not going to claim and oppression I do not feel.

Maybe that’s not her experience. It’s not mine.

Sorry @BobLemon, I'm not sure if you mean me or OP? It's important culturally because when women are enabled, educated and not discriminated against they raise the whole community. Negative forces that blight women and children's lives are called out and mitigated against, the whole of society benefits and is lifted up. There is research that supports that finding.

I was a professional person as was my husband but it was always expected that what ever the reason sickness/ill health etc, that I would leave my work/training/degree to be there or fill that gap. I did not mind ever being there for my children, but I always felt discriminated against in some of my work. The work place is still in many ways set against women and the family which strikes me as counterproductive both to industry and business as it is the next generation workers we are all investing in. Our European counterparts have enjoyed better workplace childcare and joint maternity rights since the eighties and the family is therefore free to focus on raising the next generation of the workforce along side their work. I've always enjoyed my life but there is no doubt everything is harder for women in their children producing years, society needs to recognise that, just because they are not in the workplace doesn't mean they are not contributing to society, rather the opposite. We all need to be feminists, I feel it's good for us. If you did mean me, that would be the fast answer from me. If there's something else you think I should be interested in please message/suggest away, I was just Friday browsing...

If the subject keeps being raised again and again perhaps she's not engaging because she is fed up of this particular topic always being brought up and feels disengaging is her way of not encouraging it.

There are plenty of things I have thoughts about but if the topic kept coming up id not engage so as not to encourage it

No, it isn't about saying women are fine.

But when faced with an issues, you can either moan about it or you can deal with it. Maybe a lot of those women stay silent because they have already dealt with the issue. Moved employer, dumped the useless man for a good one (or no man), settled on a balanced compromise in terms of housework, and moved on.

I didn’t.

Says you...I find it quite ironic that you're so happy clappy for women but in the same breath being pretty judgmental and snotty towards a fellow woman.

You sound completely insufferable, and it's very clear by your responses here that you want everyone to join you in your sanctimonious rants, and anyone who dare be silent is "complicit."

Give me a break.

Think it's more than that. The biggest discriminator of all is judgement and disapproval. Many women in our culture unconsciously practise the I'm OK rule because they don't want to stick their head above the parapet. Many feel their contribution would single them out as a feminist type or insurgent and countless others work steadily for the betterment of women all their lives. There are many of both sexes who are deniers of there being a discriminatory agenda in society against women but it doesn't make that true. We've all known glass ceilings and professional positions that not only discriminate against women in reproductive phases of their lives but regularlarly use poor language constantly to make women feel less than. We tend to get on with it and ignore but it's as significant in our lives as racism and misogyny in its impact. Should be called out in all public life.

Other than being the default parent, which was my desire and choice to be, I've not experienced any of the negatives you describe OP. I accept other women do, but it's not really a sparkling conversation topic for me.

Excellent point. I now do the same with one person in my social circle. The minute she starts I turn away and start a separate conversation with someone else who is equally turned off by her views

bloody hell Op… you sound very unhappily married and basically very very unhappy with your lot in life.

I suspect it’s not so much the “plight of women” you talk about at these get together, but your very unhappy existence.

Maybe start a mumsnet thread (although i imagine you have, multiple times) asking for advice regarding how to improve your “plight”

So you're commenting on her behaviour by being mean and ignorant to her? Why don't you just ask her to explain and declare you're listening to understand? She's not excluding you but you're absenting yourself and blaming her? Why?

How often does it come up in conversation?

I don't think it's odd she doesn't get involved. It's ok to not actively get involved in conversations you don't want to.

There are certain conversations I actively don't take part in at work. And as a result no one knows my views one way or another on the topic, and I very much like that.

Coffee morning with the OP…

Host: Who’d like a coffee? Or would you prefer tea?

OP: Why do you feel the need to run yourself ragged like this, offering choices of hot beverages? I bet MEN never offer their guests a choice. They probably don’t offer their guests anything at all - they probably assume that’s women’s work!

Host: Er… so coffee then? Milk, sugar?

OP: Sugar? So that we can all be sweet little women I suppose? Stay in our little boxes, just cooking and doing housework and running around after the MEN?!

Guest: Those biscuits look nice, Jane. Did you bake them yourself?

OP: Baking? Baking?! What is this, the 1950s? The little wife has to stay at home all day baking while the man goes off and earns the money? Well some of us have to earn money too - AND deal with the mental load of having to buy biscuits. Yes, BUY - I’m not ashamed of that. I bet MEN never worry about buying biscuits instead of baking them. They probably don’t even buy their own biscuits! They expect the woman they’ve subjugated into part-time work to buy them…

Guest: Erm… did anyone see the Gavin and Stacey Christmas special?

OP: Oh, GAVIN and Stacey. Of course Gavin has to come first, doesn’t he? Why can’t it be Stacey and Gavin? Why does Stacey even need Gavin? Why doesn’t she get her own Christmas special? Gavin has clearly relegated her to the role of his support act, when it’s probably her who takes on all the real work and the mental load…