Grandad creepy vibes advice please

[Jellybeans20]

hey mums, I've decided to limit contact with the biological grandfather of my LO. I will explain what happened below. I need advice on how to navigate this as we will be seeing grandmother (whom he lives with) a lot. But she will come to us and she doesn't defend his behaviour.
I made it pretty clear since LO was born that we are teaching consent. Grandad does a lot of the forced hugging and kisses, which is counterproductive to how we try to raise our little ones. LO is early mid primary school aged. Last year grandad was relatively ok but still says inappropriate things. He is always eager to push a religious element because the kids are of mixed faith and race background and there's a bit of religious competition and arrogance going on there. Kids call me mummy and he always tries to push a word in his language for the word mummy which is annoying because there's attitude when he does it. The other day, I was dropping grandma off and the grandad sticks his head in the car and kisses LO 3 times on the cheek in the same spot (it was not 3 quick pecks) and asked "did you like it?" which gave me the worst feeling ever. I quickly said "that's a very creepy question to ask". I really didn't like it. It has continued to bother me. It sounds like a grooming question to me. I unpacked it with LO and we have decided to put a double boundary there. Does anyone else think that was a weird question? This grandad has some single dad friends and one of the old men asked his daughter out when she turned 19 or something. He is still friends with that man and the bothers me because that man would have seen his daughter at the age of 10.... I understand the grandad is old and could one day pass but I feel strongly about avoiding him in the context of the kids. I would love to know if you other mums see it the way I see it and what would you do in my position?

Agree with others trust your gut.

At the end of the day you're teaching your LO how to stand up for themselves, the basics of consent, the basics of safeguarding and you're protecting them from being exploited by giving them the skills and the examples they can use to say no when they don't like something.

It's normal for grandparents to want to hug and kiss. It doesn't mean it's more important for them to get what they want than for a child to feel safe and comfortable. If he can't respect and acknowledge that then i think there's an issue- either with him and his boundaries with children or just with his ability to respect your choices as parents.

The 'did you like that' immediately gave me the ick. I instantly made a face when I read it. It's either creepy, or it's his way to undermine your boundary. Either way it's not acceptable and as an adult he should know that actions will have consequences.

Omg of course I do this! I’m just saying that I’m teaching her to say no & that I’ll have her back too. At the moment I think she’s too polite to say no which is a huge problem.

Well done op for protecting your children

i had a great relationship with my grandfathers. Neither felt the need to kiss or squeeze me. They were interesting, fun and encouraging with words. Physical contact is not a requirement of a being a grandfather.

Trust your gut, OP. It sounds like you’ve told him what kind of behaviour you find appropriate and he’s ignoring it.
I’ve had similar experiences, luckily it never escalated to rape but I had a couple of lucky escapes as a preteen (one from a classmate and the next, from my adoptive dad).

I think this is fair and he sounds awful. Is he your father or your partner’s?

Also little children absolutely should have bodily autonomy too and that he refuses to respect that is creepy.

I think her issue is not kissing and hugging but forcing it on a child without asking them. I am sure if the child wanted to hug and kiss him she would be fine with it.

@devilspawn I have the opposite experience. If it's a man that family wants you to associate with, they will turn a blind eye to whatever they need to. And it'll always be the child who is lying and it's a shame that the woman bears

she’s 5 FFS
shes not “too polite to say no”
she doesn’t have the foggiest about what this situation means so you need to jump in immediately
she. is. 5

Wtf! I’m saying I am stepping in. And you don’t know my child, she is shy and polite. Leave it.

please don’t “leave it” for your 5 year old to address this issue before you “stepping in”

Goodbye. I’ve said multiple times that I step in. Of course I do! What are you on about?!

you said you step in if he persists

She's only five but I am encouraging her to say "No" confidently next time we see him and if he then persists I will say "SHE SAID NO".

She is 5.

I don’t get what you mean. He’s her (step) grandad and not creepy, just socially inept. Sometimes she might want a hug other times not. I’d like her to learn to use her voice and feel like she can say no to grown ups. Obviously then if she says no I’ll back her up. Just like I do now if she looks awkward (but is too shy/polite to say no).

I have this problem with my OH's step-dad.

the “problem” being as per thread title “creepy” grandad.

Maybe read your first post. All you’re doing now is changing it because a couple of posters are WTf, she’s just 5

OP hopefully you’ve left the thread knowing what you need to do re this man. And also to tell your husband what’s going on

@LivingLaVidaBabyShower Well I'm sorry that I haven't expressed anger here to a level that pleases you. I have clearly identified the act as creepy. He won't be seeing the grandchild. Grandmother will definitely have unsupervised access to the children. We have cameras and she has looked after them before under the instructions of not allowing him or others over and no phone calls.

@YourChirpyFatball that's disappointing they asked you to sit on people's laps.

@Yesiknowdear im so sorry you experienced that. I hope you have a lot of supportive and loving family/friends around you now.

@Sassybooklover oh that uncle sounds very creepy.

@diddl it's a grandson

@WhereYouLeftIt Thank you for caring. I can assure you that DH did not experience CSA from this particular individual. I know it's hard without further info but I don't want to divulge too much information that could identify the people. Outside of family pressure and some physical health challenges, DH is ok.

@Cakeandcardio I am so sorry you went through that. I'm hearing a lot of creepy uncles, family friends and grandfathers.

@Feelingstrange2 you're absolutely right. they need protecting from both.

Everyone
Thank you to everyone that has given their advice/opinions. To me this discussion has been really helpful because I am reflecting on all the red flags I've been exposed to and everything everyone has been mentioning in this thread. These discussions are so important because it helps us be more conscious of how we will protect the kids in all circumstances.

@downhere a friend of mine was sexually abused by her stepdad. you are right, many kids and even adults have trouble telling grown ups to stop doing things they are uncomfortable with. there are some martial arts classes that specifically deal with this and they teach kids to practice saying "dont touch me" (firmly) whilst pushing the offending hand or person away. this might be useful to help her. Thank you for sharing your very personal story and I'm sure you will set the boundary even if your daughter is unable to.

Exactly.

g. I can assure you that DH did not experience CSA from this particular individual.

Given your keeping your worries about his father’s behaviour towards his daughter a secret from him, I’m guessing that he may also be inclined to keep things from you. I wouldn’t assume your husband hasn’t suffered at the hands of this man (for one thing, your husband can’t stand even being in the same room as his father, which i’m sure you can see is extremely… extreme)

@backwayentrance He definitely hasn't suffered CSA from the grandad. I know.
It's not possible to tell DH about this right now.