Potentially, another national insurance tax increase to pay for social care

[Toodaloo1567]

Just stumbled on this and wondered about everyone’s thoughts. Essentially, the government is being advised to increase national insurance to pay for elderly social care. I’m not keen. apple.news/AQkrJ_mvnRmClZjz_HJzA9w

This.

The whole industry needs to come under some scrutiny and be held accountable for where the public funds it's getting now are actually going, and why the standard of care generally is so woeful.
I left social care a few years ago, I got fed up of subsidising employers by way of working for free, providing my own training, equipment and resources and working in dangerous situations and constantly short staffed. And getting paid minimum wage for it.

Why are companies allowed profit while the basics that are being paid for by public funding aren't being met?

Throwing money at the industry, however it's raised, will not improve anything other than profit margins without better regulation.

That’s correct but it does still filter through to employees

I’m not sure why people are already talking about more tax rises though the last lot was it according to Reeves

I'm not seeing that in my industry, although perhaps it's mainly companies that are temporarily throwing their toys out of the pram at the idea of paying a wage people can actually live on.

Prices seem lower to me than they were under the Tories, it's not £7 for Lurpak any more for a start. Not saying that's down to Labour doing anything amazing, but it certainly doesn't seem to be as bad as it was.

I think an adult social care loan scheme is needed repayable on death from the estate.

My company (a charity) will now have an unforseen NI bill of an extra £1 million to find. So pay freezes, recruitment freezes etc. As a charity it is not for profit so doesn't have large reserves to fall back on. They are not alone in this.
Don't blame the businesses for having to adapt to something Labour have forced on them

You must have missed all the stories in the news forecasting price rises.....

Or reform income tax to the same rate irrespective of whether its a pension or employment income.

Honestly, as much as it pains me to say it, Theresa May's plan back in 2017 was pretty spot on but it was eviscerated in the press and called "the Dementia Tax" because some folk were worried that they might not inherit their parents' home.

I think you'd really test social contract imposing yet more tax on labour to support predominantly retirees.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/09/retailers-warn-of-higher-prices-in-2025-and-urge-ministers-to-ease-tax-burden

Dear Rachael has taxed inheritance more. Family Farms and businesses ... bloody stupid in my opinion. Definitely not promoting growth ... of food or business.

This is the problem. The rich and the poor avoid paying for anything. Those in the middle are basically carrying the load for the whole country. I think thats why people are tired and resentful now.

We all need to pay more but it really does mean all, not just the middle. There is a huge cohort of people who essentially live off the system. I do resent it because my work brings me into contact with people surviving on benefits because of their 'illnesses'. I typically have worse health conditions than them, it's insane.

The rich of course also need to pay more but not in a petty, spiteful way. We need to celebrate success more in this country. We need to generate wealth so we have taxes to fund care.

Already happens. It's called 'deferred payment'.

I agree with it - but it needs to be totally ringfenced and communicated well

Most country's in Europe that have good benefits and good social aspects have taxation more like 38% and the idea that wages though are much higher isn't strictly true- when we lived in Copenhagen wages were 'slightly' higher , maybe around 15% higher but tax was double. The big differences though were in what you got - no NI As such , although a separate kind of 'cover' for unemployment/illness etc, very low childcare costs indeed, no council tax , much better state pensions, far far more social housing of good quality and all sizes - better house prices in general including private rents, especially outside of Copenhagen - it's a totally different mindset - I think younger people here would 'get it' -the problem would be the kind of older people who don't need childcare, aren't paying NI, don't give a shit about making it easier on the younger members of their family, own homes outright and have big pensions already - you can just imagine the Daily Mail and Express front pages.

@Jabtastic and I agree with that too - there are some very crafty people around getting by on playing the system - and do a great diiservice to those in genuine need

Surely it would be more similar to health insurance? And even then health insurance usually has a cut-off (except sometimes for cancer), whereas this type of social care would go on paying out until the insured's death, wouldn't it? Seems to me the costs to the insurer would be much higher than in either car or health insurance, but I'm not in the industry so maybe someone who knows more could comment.

Hardly any estates are taxed atall though as allowances are generous. I’d be interested to see the math tbh.

I'm not in favour of raising this through NI as it's not a universal tax, those in work have enough to pay. I do feel sorry for people who have a prolonged illness such as dementia as nursing care can easily consume nearly all the inter-generational wealth in these cases.

I was lucky with my parents, I was able to provide full-time care for each of them in turn as well as having my MIL come to live with us. It was necessary for me to take early retirement in my mid-fifties to look after them all and the majority of people just aren't in a position financially to do this or willing to do this. In addition, many families are split and blended which makes this inter-generational style of care even more unlikely going forward. We need a solution.

The terminally lazy need to get off benefits, get jobs, and save into pensions to fund their own retirements 🤷‍♀️ Obviously, there will always be people who can’t work but there’s plenty of people who can but choose not to. I’ve got epilepsy and have regular seizures but I hold down a senior, full time, well paid job in the public sector. I feel quite angry that other people are just bone idle and won’t work, they seem to expect that they should be handed everything on a plate.

I can’t see that many people would be able to pay much more in tax via NI. Bills are increasing, the economy is in the doldrums. Look at the state of the pound today. I’d be surprised if interest rates don’t increase again shortly due to inflation . It’s shit

I am not in favour or removing tax exemptions fir garmers. Food security and the preservation of diversity is impprtant. In most othet cases a proportion of accumulated wealth mostly from.house price increases should be taxed. Not NI which penalises peiplr who may never accumulate wealth.

Yes perhaps. It would be interesting to see how much it would raise. But I imagine a small one off taxation won't touch the sides of what a NI increase would raise. The percentage would likely need to be much larger.

You might be able to, but for those of us with dependents we really can’t.

That’s why I included ‘potentially’

But it's just something a well known economist has suggested.

I'm sure plenty of other economists from across the political spectrum have all sorts of views. Doesn't make them all potential government policy.

I think it should be a tax that everyone pays not just the workers.

Thing is it's not just the 'terminally lazy' who can't fund their own care should they need it.
I've always worked full time, the majority of my life in social care - providing the very service that's being discussed, at ground level as it were. I have a workplace pension.

But I couldn't afford to buy my own house, or pay more than the bare minimum into my pension because I needed that money to survive.

If I need social care, it'll need to be funded at least partially, because I don't have the assets to fund it myself.

In the context of paying for any care I might need, there's an idea I should have been better than I am, and safeguarded my future costs and not expect the tax payer to pick up the bill.

Yet who is to actually provide the service if that's the case? We can't have it all ways, expect people to provide the service, yet vilify those providing it when their time comes to need that care, because they've not been able to afford to safeguard their own potential need for care.

(I'm not suggesting you're saying this btw, more that it's not just people who completely rely on 'the system' to support them forever that will need care funded).

I'd be inclined to charge NI to the retired (which includes me).
Or better still just merge tax and NI and have one flat tax.