Potentially, another national insurance tax increase to pay for social care

[Toodaloo1567]

Just stumbled on this and wondered about everyone’s thoughts. Essentially, the government is being advised to increase national insurance to pay for elderly social care. I’m not keen. apple.news/AQkrJ_mvnRmClZjz_HJzA9w

So @Mrsttcno1 is saying that if the decreased bought a house for 100k which is now worth 400k then the 300k only should be taxed - 40% of that should do nicely I think

Of perhaps they bought at 100k, inflation would make that 150k so we only take the 250k ?

This is Reeves’ statement in November last year

"Public services now need to live within their means because I'm really clear, I'm not coming back with more borrowing or more taxes."

Plus the no tax rises on working people pledge

I mean that’s not forgotten already is it?

Yes of course. I was referring to the title of this online forum.

Yup I agree.
Care should be means tested. If you’ve no money then fine, society has to help you out with absolute basics.

But if you have money and assets, well you need to liquidate them to pay for your care.

And someone mentioned insurance up thread…

It’s all coming folks, and faster than you think it will. Just watch.

I would say it is forgotten. Employers’ NI increases will be partially paid for by employees through reductions in planned pay increases, surely.

I agree with another poster who said social care is, essentially, healthcare. Although perhaps healthcare would be better wrapped into a social care concept where everything is linked rather than run separately.

Your concept of insurance isn't new OP, and doesn't exist anymore for the precise reason that it is not a good risk. We have an increasinly unhealthy, aging population and a failed healthcare system. It is inevitable that a signigicant proportion of the population will need care of some sort at one time or another. A friend's relative had exactly the type of policy you are suggesting (many years ago) and when she needed to go into a care home, she was able to choose a very good one that met all her needs and the insurance paid for everything. That no longer exists and I doubt it will ever come back.

The problem with private insurance is that it needs to make a profit , and along with advertising costs it will likely cost 30% more than any public service

( look at medical costs in the states as an example of bad insurance models . Look at rising insurance costs in the UK )

Also freezes on new hires

I would, also, but how would it work? What would the provision be for those who don’t opt in? Or cannot afford to?

It's been made more difficult by the last government cutting NI in the first place, but that's a small consideration when looking at the broader outlook going forward. No government has grasped the nettle on this and I agree with the poster upthread who said this now needs cross party consideration.

One thing they can do is make working pensioners pay NI. And I am one of those working pensioners.

I totally agree with you. As an older person, I already have the choice to take out a private insurance policy in case I need to go into a care home. We just cannot tax working people even more and the rises in employer NI have had a devastating effect on the economy/jobs market. Why should we tax everyone to pay for the assets of the well off!

I don’t understand why governments haven’t done this yet. It does seem an obvious step to bring in more money.

I have no 'angle' - except to point out that you have a very misleading thread title. Which is scaremongering.

Of course you have a right to ask a question. Except that's not what you've done here, is it? You've raised a very specific issue - another rise in National Insurance - which is not actually what the news reports are suggesting, is it? At least be accurate!

And:

‘do you think we should increase taxes to pay for social care?’

Isn't actually the question posed in your thread title, is it?

That would be a start, but it would still leave the bigger problem of NI not being payable on many forms of income. It's a tax on work. While it would be fairer if that tax on work weren't also ageist, it's still a bad model.

Really we should consider getting rid of NI altogether and merging it with income tax. It's a tax in all but name.

It doesn’t even need to be the full NI. Could be a reduced ‘pensioner’ NI.

It's kind of interesting because lack of resolution of these important and costly issues/questions is leading to a greater market perception that the UK is becoming unmanageable fiscally.

Fundamentally everyone wants high levels of social care, but no one actually wants to take responsibility for paying it.

Lack of resolution of these sorts of questions weights heavily on things like gilt yields, which in turn affect things like mortgage rates.

So although people may think they are far away from being a pensioner and that this doesn't affect them it actually does, just not in a direct way where they can join the dots.

NI really is the most ridiculous tax. Jeremy Hunt's ambition to gradually abolish it was noble and correct. How can it be that income from work is taxed more heavily than income from assets? It's madness.

Whilst I agree fixing social care is important, increasing a tax that applies solely to working people and employers is not a fair way to raise that money.

Teresa May was on to the right track in 2017, but it lost her the super-majority that she was on track for. Massive generalisation, but the boomers hated the idea of footing their own care bill.

The current NI increase is already negatively impacting social care.

It’s due to cost adult social care £900million next year. In combination with the minimum wage increase it is set to increase costs for the 18,000 independent adult social care organisations to around £2.8billion next year.

So, many will fold ending vital care services. These combined costs not only cancel out the extra funds in the budget for adult social care they will also atrophy the extra spending power given local councils in the budget.

She lied. We are going to have many tax rises under this awful regime.

Working people? The last national insurance rise was paid by employers.

Well something needs to be done..
I'd prefer it done this way than all the bloody surprise bills you get when you are elderly or caring for an elderly relative.
I'm in this situation with my mum at the moment. You are expected to suddenly find thousands...
A struggle for us and we aren't destitute..
I can only imagine what it's like for people who struggle financially.
There should be free access to this but even if you are on benefits etc you are still expected to fund all sorts personally it seems.. or you or your relative do not receive adequate care!
I would happily pay extra tax throughout my life to fund social care.
I work for the NHS and the biggest issue is the impact that underfunded social care has on NHS services, particularly emergency services and hospitals. The NHS has to treat people when they become medical emergencies.. but there's many people who would not need that treatment if they had had proper social care.
The elderly clogging up hospital beds because they have nowhere safe or that meets their needs, to be discharged to, for example.
So you can wang on about 'young working people footing the bill' all you want, but realise this is an issue that effects young working people because our health service is currently baring the burden... so when a young person needs to use it they won't be able to, due to the elderly using all the ambulancence and beds etc etc
We ALL need social care to be better funded as its linked to the wellbeing of all our gealthcare services and allows the NHS to function.

I think that people with the money & resources should pay for their own care and there should be a safety net for those who can't.

The expectation to inherit should not be seen as an automatic right and people's savings should be seen as their savings to pay for their old age, not necessarily to pass on.

Only on paper. In reality it has = pay freezes, recruitment freezes, higher prices etc. Which is exactly what Labour were told would happen.

I'd rather see VAT go up ... everybody pays then, not just some workers or employers (which just been hammered with NI changes)