Potentially, another national insurance tax increase to pay for social care

[Toodaloo1567]

Just stumbled on this and wondered about everyone’s thoughts. Essentially, the government is being advised to increase national insurance to pay for elderly social care. I’m not keen. apple.news/AQkrJ_mvnRmClZjz_HJzA9w

Something has to give though?

@ErrolTheDragon exactly - many of us pay lots of insurances related to house and travel and unemployment /sickness and never claim on them - but will be well thankful for them if we need to

But the Scottish "enjoy" free university education, free prescriptions etc., so their higher income taxes ARE paying for things that the rest of the UK don't get.

The answer has to be to grow the economy, increase productivity, reduce the number of unemployed and part timers (those who "could" work more), to get the economy going again.

We can't keep increasing taxes on the same group of people, i.e. workers, as they're the people we need on board to keep working both for tax revenues and producing the stuff we need/providing the services we need.

Let's forget about tax for the time being and put all efforts into getting people working, i.e. better education/skills training for the young, reduced incentives for the old to retire early, more incentives to get part timers working more, and both carrot and stick to get the feckless and idle doing something productive.

They were already in place, but we had a tax hike and no improvements and it’s not the rest of the UK as Wales also get free prescriptions, its actually cheaper to give them free than to pay from the admin of determining eligibility.

Let's forget about tax for the time being and put all efforts into getting people working, i.e. better education/skills training for the young, reduced incentives for the old to retire early, more incentives to get part timers working more

But tax is part of the problem. More lower paid people being taxed because the personal allowance hasn't kept up with inflation feeds into the poverty trap. The higher rate bands - which also haven't kept up with inflation- are a reason why quite a lot of people in well paid jobs choose to work part time.

I haven't read all this thread so someone has probably said it, but why would you raise tax to fund social care specifically when you have just failed to exempt the sector from an NI increase that is costing social care NFPs literally millions that they have no ability to raise.

They are in some cases. My friends mum remarried and he moved into her property but didn't own it. She needed care and since he still lives in property she is assessed as not able to sell asset to pay for care. She gets free care with a huge asset to leave.

It has to be funded somehow. What is your preferred method?

Houses don’t count if you’re still living in them. If you go into a care home and the house can’t be sold because someone else over 60 lives there the LA “lends” the fees and claims them back when the property is sold.

I think charges will be put on houses for people who need care in their home or it will happen by stealth anyway.

Unlikely given it cost May the 2017 election.

It's not going to be claimed back though. Its discounted from.the financial assessment so no fees will be payable, she has that in writing since another adult lives there

No wonder LAs are broke when they don’t even take money they’re entitled to.

This is because repayment could make the spouse or partner or dependant person homeless. It’s always been like this. It’s about savings. Being asset rich and cash poor can work for you!

As many people don’t save for pensions they are hardly going to save for care when they are old. I agree with @Badbadbunny we do have insufficient need for some to work. Taxation of pension pots is a big one. People don’t want to pay the tax do they stop working full time. Doctors do this all the time. We lose some very good employees very early from the workforce.

What about people under 60?
My friend's mum will need a care home in the next year or two. She is buying a house with her son. He is in his 40s. Will he be booted out? He will have joint equity of the house.

It’s very likely he’ll have to buy her out or move, very few LAs are as generous as the one in the previous post. Only those over 60 are protected.

Oh dear, that is crap 😥
Neither he or his mum can afford a place alone, and he is her full time carer.

Unlikely given it cost May the 2017 election.

2017 was a long time ago and the shit is now hitting the fan. And as I said lots will happen by stealth anyway.

There are more jobseekers than there are job vacancies. And that is just people on jobseeking benefits. Students, people looking to change jobs, SAHP, retired looking to earn pin money etc, are not included in those figures. And those vacancies includes zero hour rubbish that would never take someone off of benefits anyway.

How can it happen by stealth? You can’t change something as fundamental as social care funding by stealth. You seem to forget what a large proportion of the population is old, even more than in 2017.

How can it happen by stealth? You can’t change something as fundamental as social care funding by stealth.

I did mean health & social care in general. So 3 older relatives have gone private for operations in the last few years as the waits were too long. They didn’t want to wait as their condition would deteriorate, I expect that to become more common in general as waits gets even longer, don’t you? Some relatives of my in-laws released some equity to fund private carers in the home. The state offer was rubbish but they were in their 90s & wanted to stay in their home. Think they spent about 80k. My colleagues mother has downsized and moved in with her to a new property with an annex and plans to fund care later.

You seem to forget what a large proportion of the population is old, even more than in 2017.

Er, I already mentioned the issue is an ageing population. We don’t have the workforce to provide the care that is needed, there is a 100k care vacancies and it’s predicted the increased demand over the next decade will mean 3 or 4 times that will be needed.

No one wants to do care work. It is undervalued, and underpaid.
Change that, and it would probably have a positive knock on affect.

No one wants to do care work. It is undervalued, and underpaid.
Change that, and it would probably have a positive knock on affect.

Of course but you can’t change that without ££££