Potentially, another national insurance tax increase to pay for social care

[Toodaloo1567]

Just stumbled on this and wondered about everyone’s thoughts. Essentially, the government is being advised to increase national insurance to pay for elderly social care. I’m not keen. apple.news/AQkrJ_mvnRmClZjz_HJzA9w

Social care and care of the elderly has fallen to rack and ruin under the conservatives. The financial figures speak for themself. The government needs to invest in paying and training care staff properly, a general register of carers and limiting the amount of profit provisions make. The U.K. needs to look at how other countries finance social care and how other countries provide efficient care processes.

@ChipsNBrownSauce in a lot of countries the children will be responsible for contributing towards their parents care home fees. There might be uproar if we introduced this in the UK.

Unfortunately due to lack of social care, more and more is impacting on the NHS and hospital beds.
Many do not have the choice but to work and yet still care for loved one’s.

I am early 40’s with a grandma with social needs and a parent and two children who rely on me.

I work full time. There is only me to juggle everything. Luckily I’m in a good job where I’m paid a decent salary and work is flexible so I can make hours up when my son is in bed. Others are not so fortunate.

I’m okay with paying towards my care if I need it, but I cannot see that taking practically every penny I have worked long and hard for is fair. A cap on costs as was supposed to happen (£86,000 ish?) has now been ‘postponed’. I would have thought a system using a percentage of an estate to calculate the care cost cap would be fairer and take into account regional property prices.

I feel it’s very unfair that self funders subsidise LA residents in the same homes. As usual the very rich set up trusts or squirrel their money into offshore accounts, those who have nothing (either never earning much or spending not saving) are paid for and the squeezed middle gets squeezed even harder.

I feel it’s very unfair that self funders subsidise LA residents in the same homes.

Not in the more expensive homes, their fees are completely beyond LAs’ parameters, subsidised or not. It’s no more unfair than expecting the taxpayer to subsidise them.

Taxpayer subsidies are spread among more people though.

I agree individuals should pay for their own care if needed. But say a place costs £700 per week I don’t think individuals should pay £900 so the LA can get away with paying £500.

That isn’t how it works. The amount LAs allocate per head is frankly pitiful. When my parents were in a care home it was less than half the fees they were paying. Their care home wouldn’t take anyone except self funders because the disparity would have been too great. More homes are now doing this which is why there’s such a shortage of places for people who can’t fund themselves.

It isn’t how it works in some care homes but is absolutely how it works in others.

It isn’t. The LA has a standard maximum fee. Each home or group of homes takes a view on whether it’s viable to accept that. It doesn’t raise every self funding resident’s fee to directly subsidise an LA funded resident.

You know how every care home in the country works, clearly.

I’m not going to get into an argument about this so will leave it there.

I know how the system works. I worked in it for long enough.

@angstridden2 Why should there be a cap on costs? If you have the money, you should pay all the costs surely?

Agreed, it’s so frustrating

The UK system is so ridiculous but there seems to be such low knowledge that it is a poorly working model and a global exception seems we will be stuck in this doom loop forever

Not to even mention all the ridiculous comparisons with the US when healthcare and other topics get mentions

Such low bar reporting often by the media

If the self employed have paid 100% of their pension contributions, it’s their money. Maybe doctors should be taxed on the 23.7% the state contributed to their generous pensions? Why should the wealth creators be penalized yet again @ErrolTheDragon Also higher pension pots are taxed already. It’s just that some people never had the state contribute 23.7.%.

No wonder we have no growth.

The idea of IHT bandings bringing the majority into the fold ud an excellent idea, @ErrolTheDragon

I suggest setting the minimum band so low as to be primsrily symbolic, and makes the threshold £50K or 100K (maintaining the caveat for couples who are legally bound) Shift the norm so that tje expectation is that everyone pays somrthing.

Many bandings are more effective and morr fair than a small number, which have a cliff edge effect.

I remember reading that in France if your parents / parents in law can’t afford care home fees. You will be asked to contribute and if it’s a no then the court will rule on the issue. About a third of people in care homes in France are being topped up by their children.

The issues arising from private vs state funded index linked pensions is a whole other topic of itself, though obviously related.

So another pragmatic solution. This also may resolve the disposal of one’s assets to the kids to avoid paying your own care home fees.

This.

The elderly need increasingly more social care. No one appears to want to pay. They don't want to use their investments sell their property or own money which they'd like to leave as inheritance for children and grandchildren.

So who pays? The taxpayer? If that's the case tax has to increase.

These constant calls for more tax are concerning. I know it’s kind of an mn thing and I’m not sure the general electorate are as keen but making up shrinking private sector with higher taxes is a cycle that we don’t want

I agree - if we want to live in a lower tax world personal and family responsibility needs to be increased. I also think there needs to be more clear two tier system for self funders and council funders - that would increase the incentive for people using their resources to pay for care. Maybe something simple like single rooms for self funders, Shared rooms for council funders.

Many of us are quite happy to fund our own social care. Fuck leaving an inheritance and making people pay who are poorer than we or our kids will ever be. We saved for a rainy day and will put the umbrella when it becomes necessary.

As a society we need to look after our vulnerable, I’m happy to pay extra. Not everyone can afford to pay for their care.

I hope it is taxed more highly.

And they'll still get it all for nowt!!!