Brilliant article about the rape gangs in the UK

[Petrine]

I’ve put this on AIBU as it appears to be most read. A brilliant article about the rape gangs and the ensuing cover up.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/01/07/elon-musk-has-ripped-cloak-of-deceit-off-britain-scandal/

Pretty confident they’re not Gen X.

And we have seen* how this happens with HappyPanda613‘s *belief that Pakistani men should not be subject to the same laws as other men.

@napody I can see where you're coming from but I don't think you can know that for certain (about Musk) and also it's totally irrelevant.
I was 13 over 20 years ago and we all talked about this exact thing happening. It is something which happened over and over again - groups of men from a shared cultural/ religious background grooming and raping vulnerable WHITE girls. So yes it's about men, but it's also about race and pedophilia. But it is those specific things combined and it needs to be properly looked in to. We also need to address misogyny, but I believe that's a related, yet separate issue.

You didn't bother to read properly or grasp my actual post @napody - I'm not sure why you thought it was particularly aimed at you? It's aimed at lots of people who think whataboutery is an answer to people wanting further action on these gangs.

Because not stating the bloody obvious (that the Rotherham gang rapes and the way they were ignored is an atrocity) isn't evidence of anyone's empathy. It's an assumption that nobody on a chat board is in any way entitled to make about another person based on a couple of comments.

You’re not just complicit in the racism, you are actively advocating for it. Shame on you.

Because not stating the bloody obvious (that the Rotherham gang rapes and the way they were ignored is an atrocity) isn't evidence of anyone's empathy. It's an assumption that nobody on a chat board is in any way entitled to make about another person based on a couple of comments.

I'm entitled to draw whatever conclusion I like thanks, and I wasn't addressing any individual person.

I respect your point but just can't understand you thinking it's in any way separate. It's the foundation stone on which all the other factors you mention (which I agree with- very clearly put) rest. And without keeping it as the primary lens it's just becoming a political football to be hijacked, which won't do these women and girls any good at all.

It's about race, misogyny and class. The way those girls were seen as white trash by the Asian men who groomed and then subjected them to the most horrific abuse, then the way the police saw them as trouble makers who were making "life style choices" who consented to the abuse. Underpinning it all, cultures including western ones which see females as lesser objects who do not deserve to be believed and valued.

did i say that?
It's generally not called racism, even in the law, if a white person is attacked by someone of another race, due to their skin colour. It is racially motivated though.

Racism - the way that black people, or Asian people experience it from white people in the UK is based on historical power relationships.

So what do you think about other communities which do have Jewish people who feel terrified. Terror that is fed by the stirring up of antisemitic actions at the Pro Palestinian rallies. I assume you condemn those too -you can comment on other communities.

if it wasn’t for Musk we wouldn’t be talking about fake gangs.

He’s done everybody a great favour.

Or are you another one who would wish to sacrifice thousands of children on the alter of ‘diversity’.

Yes absolutely true.

And 'underpinning it all' is exactly right and the only, very straightforward point I'm trying to make.

So in areas in Britain where that power dynamic changes white people can be subject to racism would you agree?

I find this 'you can comment on...' style of arguing very odd. Show me you care about Jewish people, show me empathy in the way I demand.

Rather than engaging in the actual thread of the argument.

It's not a brilliant article, it's quite mediocre and a bit bum-licky towards EM. Perhaps Alison P thinks he's about to buy the Torygraph and is hoping to hang onto her job.

HOWEVER, anything that gets this issue into mainstream discussion is good. It should spark wider discussion around society's attitudes towards rape victims, police behaviour towards statutory victims, and the adultification of BAME girls who are both perpetrators and victims of crime.

Everyone has the protected characteristic of race as per the Equality Act, just like everyone has an age and a sex.

Of course she (or he) would.

Protecting Labour votes is still the priority for a lot of people, even if it means girls will continue to be raped, tortured and abused.

If keeping girls safe from these evil men emboldens what our vile PM calls the "far right", so be it. The slur is losing its power to silence and that has to be a good thing.

I guess the difference is, is that in western cultures misogyny is seen as wrong. We call out women and men not being treated equally. Yes misogyny still exists, but society as a whole sees it as wring, it contravenes the values of western society. Within Islam men and women are not treated equally, women are viewed as not having the same rights. This misogyny is embedded in that culture. There is a difference.

no - i don't think the law calls it racism. (IANAL and all that)
because in the UK white people (specifically white men) hold all the positions of power and influence and most of the wealth.

But those people can be subject to something akin to racism due to being in the minority. I'm sure there's a word for it but my brain is broken.

This is an in-depth interview with the Times journalist Andrew Norton who covered the grooming case in-depth, it is a tough and disturbing listen but worth it if you want a take from someone who was actually there and knows what they are talking about

And… what? Polish and Romanian people
came here under EU freedom of movement. If there are prisoners from those countries that you want to deport then I see no issue with this if the law allows but can’t see it
significant either way. Roma gangs have been problematic but Romanians can’t get into the UK now since Brexit. Also, not Muslim. Albanians mostly have no legimate claim to asylum and this has now been addressed through working with Albanian government and numbers arriving have plummeted. Again number of prisoners is minuscule overall.
Muslim populations are mainly urban and disproportionately in deprived areas. I imagine this accounts for the statistical difference in prison population. And… if it doesn’t… I ask again - what do you want? What are you asking for? The scapegoating of an entire race/ religion is so dangerous.

But those people can be subject to something akin to racism due to being in the minority. I'm sure there's a word for it but my brain is broken.

@Brefugee

No, there isn't another word. It's just racism.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck....

I take your point- I think that's an overly rosy view of Western attitudes to misogyny (rape conviction rates laughable, death penalty for abortion on tbe horizon, Gisele Pelicot's rapists seemingly confused that her husband couldn't give permission to access her body) but I agree that misogyny is closer to the surface in many Muslim communities and that's a problem. But that just means it needs more careful articulation that it's the misogyny, not individual Muslims (including women and children) that is causing these horrific events.

i do think that we get a bit sidetracked by the racism.

When we describe things like "grooming gangs" we must be able to use clear, accurate language - preferably in a non-inflammatory way - so that people know what they are looking out for.

We described paedophile priests fairly accurately after all. But we do have to be careful not to inflame already precarious race relations, and we have to apply the law fairly.