WWYD - child with no manners

[Rainallnight]

DD’s best friend has no manners. They’re both 8 and a half.

We’ve had friend around for plenty of play dates and have done some days out etc. She literally never, ever says please or thank you, and just comes across as quite demanding in how she asks for things. No SEN that I’m aware of.

DD is no angel and sometimes needs prompting on manners but is generally pretty reliable, as I think kids should be at this age.

Friend’s mum has texted me thanking me for the most recent play date and asking some quite searching questions about her daughter’s behaviour, as well as saying she hopes her DD didn’t come across as rude or demanding.

What do I do? I’d never spontaneously offer feedback but she has asked. But criticising anyone’s child has never ended well.

YABU - don’t say a word
YANBU - tell her what how her DD behaves.

She’s asked, you noticed prior to that, so I’d say something.

don’t mention your own child or play it down. Be tactful but honest

Expelliarmus!

Keep it simple “Few reminders on the please & thank you”
no need to go deep on it & make future communication awkward.

Sounds like the other parent suspects SEN so l think honest feedback would be better. I don’t think this is just about bratty behaviour.

Totally agree!

However, the BBC thought it worthy of a place on their website.

Sadly, many people still persist with the foolish belief that anything on the BBC must be given credence.

Others then jump on the bandwagon, including the notorious case of chef, Joshna Maharaj who felt that teaching children to eat with a knife and fork was "dripping with racism."

So, of course it is bollocks but the BBC, wittingly or not, by keeping this article on its website endorses this thinking for the hard of thinking.

I was actually going to comment that it doesn’t surprise me in the least that the article was on the BBC website !!

You have to be honest. You're an adult in a trusted position if you have her dd over without a parent so lying isn't on.

I think you should give the feedback that she's blunt and direct in her communication.

If the mum is concerned about SEN then it will help the assessment process to have evidence that her daughter is the same in all environments.

Yanbu

"Friend’s mum has texted me thanking me for the most recent play date and asking some quite searching questions about her daughter’s behaviour, as well as saying she hopes her DD didn’t come across as rude or demanding."

Answer her truthfully. She's already expecting you to say 'yes', isn't she? And she wouldn't be asking if she didn't intend to do something with the information either. It sounds as if someone else has raised it with her recently, or that she has had her daughter be rude at home too. Do the kindest thing in the long term (however hard it feels in the short term), and tell her the truth.

My parents told me to say thank you etc when I was little but I don't think it went in until I was older. When we lived in a down to earth working class town I always felt very relaxed playing at my friends' houses after school and around their parents.

When we moved to a posher area I suddenly found there seemed to be lots of rules I wasn't previously aware of when going to friends' houses for tea. I remember one friend telling me the next day at school that her mum found me rude as I didn't say please and thank you enough. I was mortified and thought I'd had a really nice chat with her parents at the dinner table- though I did notice her mum seemed to ask me a question every time I'd put food in my mouth- I think she was doing it deliberately to test me and feel superior as I had a stronger Manchester accent than her daughter so probably thought I was a bit "common".

So I have to say it has never bothered me with DDs' friends. Most were really lovely anyway.

I must admit I do this too. I hate bad manners in adults and children. Although sometimes people think that saying thank you after receiving something negates the need for asking for it with a please 🧐

Did you correct her at all during the playdate?

Do you think there might be a chance she went home and told her mum you were strict with her/ told her off for bad manners? That's why mum is asking?

Just a thought.

Given the specific question, yes do say something tactfully. Maybe give her a ring instead of texting.

I think a lot of kids do fewer pleases and thank yous when out of earshot of their parents than those parents think! It's often just embarrassment I think, particular with teens. Some of my friends would be horrified at the number of times I've driven their kids home without them acknowledging me in the slightest. "Well brought up", middle class kids who get As and do scouts and orchestra. They are through the worst of puberty now and it comes much easier.

Bear in mind also that visiting ND kids might not understand the prompts you've trained your own children with. Especially if you use "tricks" like becoming temporarily deaf until they ask nicely, or asking "what do you say?"/waiting with pointed silence rather than telling them what you are expecting.

If her mum is asking quite searching questions re her behaviour, they are probably struggling with the daughter at home -(and may suspect some SEN.)

My DD is very direct/rude and hyperactive at home and starting assessments for ADHD.

But I’m not this would be obvious to others. Some parents have noted the hyperactivity and defiance.

We’ve told ourselves she would not be rude to other parents but I genuinely would like to know.

I think if she’s asked keep it overall positive but do confirm she doesn’t say thanks and can be quite direct,

Its helpful to know if your child behaves in other settings the same as at home. I’m sure you can find a way to be tactful and kind about it

I think the child’s mum has concerns about the wee girl and as someone who woukd ask friends about one of my children compared to theirs I’d answer the mum as honestly as I could. Not that I as asking about manners but my concern about things he did were justified and he now has a diagnosis.

Manners are great, and I expect my children to use them. But I don't think that not saying please is the same as being ungrateful or rude.

The thing is, children don't say thanks because they mean it, they're saying it because they're told to. It is a little performative. But good to remind them that being grateful is a thing, all the same.

It can be cultural differences in manners and etiquette. Pretty much only the British (and possibly Irish) do the ridiculous "six thank you" transactions in shops, and in many languages "please" isn't used anywhere near as much as in British English.

In a lot of other European countries it's ok to say "Give me..." in a shop and it isn't impolite.

Mine has late diagnosed autism and has never mastered spontaneous please and thank you. She just says what she wants. She doesn't mean to be rude. I'd tell the other parent the truth and that you don't mind at all (assuming you don't).

I respond to other parents with information I would consider helpful and like to receive for my dc, however hard it might be to hear.

So if a parent specifically asked me if their dd was rude I would have no problems saying. I would us the shit sandwich technique if possible/appropriate

"it was lovely having Susan over, she needed a some prompting to say thank you and I obviously wasn't popular when I told her she couldn't have a 3rd cookie 🤣, but they are all work in progress and will get there in time, dd really enjoyed her playdate and we are looking forward to having her over again"

She's lovely. We loved having her. I hope you don''t mind me asking her to say please and thank you - just like our kids.
I want our kids to see consistency.

She's asked you, so tell her. "She was fine, no challenging or demanding behaviour (if true) Had to have a few reminders about saying please and thank you, which i duly provided! Thanks for asking."

My DH deals with a variety of teenagers. They all soon learn what is acceptable and what is not, within this environment.
When there's an event, that parents are invited to, it's not unusual to hear comments that their child never behaves that well at home!
These DC are not compelled to go to the event but few will miss an evening through their own choice.
Set your boundaries and stick to them. DC, whatever the age, like to know what's expected of them.

Easy, when she us at yours expect the same from them both even if you have to point it out initially. Then pass that on to mum in a what she does now at yours way rather than what she doesn't do.

I would just reply that she sometimes needed reminding to use her please and thank yous and you hope she doesn't mind but you feel it's important to do this to model good behaviours in front of your own dd