WWYD - child with no manners

[Rainallnight]

DD’s best friend has no manners. They’re both 8 and a half.

We’ve had friend around for plenty of play dates and have done some days out etc. She literally never, ever says please or thank you, and just comes across as quite demanding in how she asks for things. No SEN that I’m aware of.

DD is no angel and sometimes needs prompting on manners but is generally pretty reliable, as I think kids should be at this age.

Friend’s mum has texted me thanking me for the most recent play date and asking some quite searching questions about her daughter’s behaviour, as well as saying she hopes her DD didn’t come across as rude or demanding.

What do I do? I’d never spontaneously offer feedback but she has asked. But criticising anyone’s child has never ended well.

YABU - don’t say a word
YANBU - tell her what how her DD behaves.

I think you have the perfect response. She's clearly concerned and you have also noted your own child can be forgetful so if you are both doubling down during playdates it can only be good for both children.

I also tend to treat other peoples children as my own for this sort of thing. DH is almost reflexive to the point of absentmindedly reminding a colleague to say please without thinking. He was mortified as it was in front of a room full of people.

It isn't that big a deal to tell parent

It is if that parent suspects SEN and is asking to see if the same behaviour she’s seen at home is being repeated socially in her absence. OP needs to be tactful and empathetic, but honest with it.

I would want to know if it was my child. In fact, when my children were picked up from a play date etc I ALWAYS asked 'did you remember you manners' and I always made them say thank you to the host. Back good manners IMO.

It doesn't hurt to ask a child "what's the magic word" if you're offering something does it?

You have to be as honest as you can, even ask if there's a particular reason that she is asking. My son is ND and around that age it wouldn't have been helpful for me to have a played down response. He is so high functioning and brilliant at masking but his social skills were poor, he was over looked at school for a long time and I was beginning to think it was just me and I was imaging it. Everyone always saying that there was nothing to worry about, he's been fine here etc.
She may also want the feedback so she can use it to practice behaviour at future play dates with her dc, talk about it with her etc

I’d say something like.

She is such a lovely child and she and DD get on so well.

I am not sure what you mean about the behaviour question my own experience is that kid’s behaviour can be very varied at this stage and expectations from us as adults can definitely be varied too. Have you had any concerns?

I am just delighted that the girls get on so well.

As she’s specifically asked then yes, you should definitely tell her. And don’t directly drag your DD into it if she’s usually polite! That makes its sound like they’re both acting the same and she might blame your DD.

I’d go with “she’s no trouble, but yeah, she can be quite direct and doesn’t always/ever say please or thank you! I do prompt her when she forgets/every time like I would if it were my own kids. Is that ok? Is there anything in particular you’re worried about?”

She's specifically asked you for feedback about her child's manners, so I think you should be honest - but in a tactful way. I think I'd say something like 'She's certainly not shy about asking for what she wants! But I'm sure she doesn't mean to be rude' or something like that.

I have a relative who was demanding and lacked manners at 7/8. This last year she’s a different child, exceptionally sweet and always saying thank you. I have no idea what caused the change but don’t write her off just yet!

@Rainallnight I might have this conversation with the mother in person rather than by text.
There is no context or kindness portrayed in words. If you catch the wrong vibe the mother could be reading and rereading your words getting wound up. But if you say in person you can be sure you are not critisising her or her child and are saying it in a position of friendship because asked and not from malice or any other standpoint.

For shame OP!
Don't be so judgemental.

Google "Why it's OK to Have Bad Manners" by Dr Kirsty Sedgman and published on the BBC website. She questions if good manners are racist and ablest and quotes a black woman saying that they are used to "keep us down."

She concludes that manners are simply value judgements and that we must not be so judgemental of the values of others.

I do so hope that this makes you check your privilege and accept that a society without good manners is a progressive society.

Every time that child is "rude" according to your value judgement, give an inner cheer that here is living proof of the kind, intellectual and progressive society that we now live in where no-one judges anybody.

I see SEN is mentioned so if you don’t mind me adding (I mean mentioned in the thread) that many years ago we were taught with SEN manners weren’t important and communication wise a waste of time. So during my work with SEN I stuck to that. Then I had my own SEN children and one wasn’t verbal for a while, then got a limited vocabulary until he was comfortable talking to the level he now, anyway I used makaton for please and thank you with him from about age 2 and still sign it now with my baby, but even with his limited understanding he does say and sign please, thank you and sorry and uses them appropriately/contextually.
I understand why people don’t put my emphasis with SEN, especially very low functioning kiddos but I found with mine he appreciates it when I thank/apologise to him and it’s done wonders for his communication. Obviously just one child and not for everyone but I think my wee son is happier for it, just in case anyone reading this isn’t sure if they should try out manners or signing with their SEN kids. Sorry to derail x

I've just had an horrific flashback to being in the queue in the baker's shop one day when a man said 'I want one of those pasties' and I, a mother of young children who just weren't with me that day, automatically said 'please...'

I hope that this is sarcasm.
I would assume so, but you never can tell these days...

I would never feel the need to ask a parent if I am allowed to prompt their child to say please and thank you, or indeed to address any aspect of their behaviour.
Especially if that child is in my care, or in my home.

thank you for this, I’ll Google.
my parents (white, lower socioeconomic class, learning difficulties) were rude, my father especially but my mum can be unpleasant in her own way through lack of social awareness and anxiety.
I was very embarrassed about them and I’ll never forget going to another lass house for dinner when I was a child and her parents ridiculed me for not knowing how to use cutlery. I felt so small at that moment I have always tried to raise my children to be well mannered so they never felt as stupid and honestly scummy as I did.
But I will read that as it’s a very interesting topic x

It is but it remains a fact that the report I mention is real, does indeed contain these conclusions and quotes and is on the BBC website.

I really can’t stand bad manners in children but my son has so many friends who never say please or thank you. I’ve never said anything because it’s not my place. That being said, she’s asked you but I feel it’s not appropriate for a text. It’s the kind of thing you might have to wait to say in person.0

Nice bit of sarcasm. What a load of old bollocks. Manners are both racist and ableist ? Now I’ve heard it all.

Her parents were the rude ones - horrendously so. Not knowing the conventions of cutlery use is nothing compared to actively ridiculing someone.

I’ve asked for similar feedback on my (admittedly SEN) child - she can struggle with certain behaviour especially if in a group

the lovely mother I was with was very brave (I did say I wouldn’t shoot the messenger) and gave some very tactful and helpful feedback which has helped me work on certain things at home.

i did as her as I knew she would say if asked (where as others would just say all fine as wouldn’t want to cause issues) and as I knew she wouldn’t gossip. I was very thankful!

Total and utter nonsense. Most black people I know have very good manners, in a lot of cases the children in particular are much more polite than the white child I’ve encountered.

I would just say something like 'no issues with behaviour. I am pretty strict here about pleases and thankyous - hope that hasn't caused any upset. Same rules for mine as for guests regarding asking for things nicely etc.'

Not everything that comes from the mouth/pen of an academic is worthy of attention or consideration. Some of it is absolute bollocks.

I wouldn’t say anything- ignore that part and focus on how the girls played. I’ve had some rude play dates and the parents know their child is a brat and rude why would I tell them. If they’re that bad don’t invite them again.

I think the mom might know what her child is like, but maybe wants to be sure so asking you how she behaves.
I'd tell her the truth. You're not lying, she asked.