Happy Elon Musk calling out govt over grooming gang PT 2

[Chainzreaction]

Pt 2 can commence!

Very true

The 'wiping the floor with Starmer' hasn't really materialised - she only seems to do shambolic or mediocre

Yes, the previous inquiries have led to various individuals being identified and then disciplined (e.g., police officers by their employer) or resigning their posts.

I'm not sure of the likelihood of any new inquiries leading to additional people being identified as having failed in their role but, if that did happen, they'd probably also be looking at forced resignations or disciplinary action by their employer or governing body.

Edit: meant to quote the OP's last post.

Thanks @@onelemondog
Is this all that can be done, just resignations, can they be charged for withholding information or not taking action that could have prevented abuse? Have names been made public?
I feel Labour have an opportunity here to make a difference. I would like to see them come down very strongly on those who protected the rapists instead of the victims & I really hope they take this route.

If you're thinking criminal consequences then (without meaning to sound trite) then you'd need to prove that someone has committed a crime. It's not impossible that crimes were involved (say, something like bribery) but if it's a case of people "just" being (catastrophically) bad at their jobs, or making bad decisions, then the consequences probably won't go far beyond resignations or employer/professional discipline.

The names of public officials who have resigned are, of course, public. I dont know if any individual police officers have been named.

I understand what you mean . Let's say hypothetically a victim confided in a professional or filed a complaint but nothing came of it how would this be interpreted by law? Or would disciplinary action or the individual resigning be the end of it.
Could those individuals work with children again if safeguarding failures had been proven?

That's quite an open and far reaching question, and I'm not familiar enough with the rules governing professional misconduct or disciplinary actions to give you a fulsome answer. I'd expect that if, for example, a police officer is found to have committed gross misconduct, they will lose their job and find it hard to get similar employment. I doubt that consequences would go much beyond that, but perhaps someone in the thread has more expertise and can weigh in.

Is this the same Elon Musk that owns the drone company that Israel uses to illegally spy on children in Gaza to readily drop bombs on their schools, hospitals and refugee camps that are overflowing with poorly/vulnerable children? Do your research on his companies and how he spends his billions, he is no saint by any means. I’m not saying what he’s pushing to Starmer to investigate isn’t a good thing but if you look beneath the surface of propagandistic news media you will undoubtedly find some ugly truths. Please watch this video to be enlightened with the facts:

ALL children deserve safety and love at the very least. We should be careful who we choose to champion based off of mainstream news media which has a concentrated power of ownership meaning although it seems like there is variety in news consumption they are all largely owned by the same corporations or shareholders meaning it is mostly a breeding ground for echo-chambers in traditional news, please be an independent agent and do your own investigative research before championing someone who is on the whole extremely oppressive to children.

All the best to you 💐

Appreciate your reply. There are so many different scenarios especially as these professionals in whatever capacity were working with children & would have been police vetted & have undertaken child protection courses..

Well said. Badenoch is ridiculous. She has zero credibility or integrity.

Whilst I know there's been an inquiry and the Jay Report, I'm upset about this issue because it hasn't had the same public scrutiny as other scandals have.

The Windrush, Hillsborough, Stop & Search, Stephen Lawrence, Post Office and Savile scandals have all had extremely high profile and lengthy public scrutiny and conversations in the media and public life.

By contrast, the Rape Gangs have been going on since the 1970s, primarily afflicting white and Sikh girls, taking place primarily in poor areas with Labour Councils, is STILL going on and has been relatively speaking swept under the rug due to concerns about community cohesion.

It's a central tenet of English and Welsh law, first enshrined in Magna Carta and updated countless times since, that Justice must be transparently done 'without fear nor favour' of politics. In this case, justice HAS taken second place to politics (ie multicultural community cohesion).

There are also strong themes of classism and misogyny. These girls were and are seen as less deserving of justice because they were/are poor and vulnerable.

There are also themes of corruption. In some of the areas where this was going on, the perpetrators had relatives and friends on local Councils (mostly Labour led Councils). Women who tried to blow the whistle were sacked, silenced or in one case sent on a diversity course.

I say this as an immigrant and someone who had a friend who was a victim of a Rape Gang in the 1990s. I'm glad this scandal is now surfacing on an international level. We need a long, transparent and fearless public conversation about it. NOW.

What action?

Where there is criminal responsibility then prosecution and where there is professional misconduct I guess that would be down to employers or professional bodies.

Each individual case would need to be investigated by the appropriate body and dealt with accordingly. There is no one blanket action.

I think we all agree that the action taken thus far has been woefully inadequate. We now have a government that has declared the intention to action the recommendations already made in 2022. This is a positive step forward, surely you agree? Or do you feel that should be delayed for another 7 years while another enquiry takes place?

What action would Elon Musk like to see? Dissolution of government? How is that supposed to help get anything done? He doesn't care about the girls at all. He has been relentlessly campaigning against the Labour government since they were elected. To him this is nothing more than another stick to beat them with.

It's quite frightening that people can't see that he is using an emotive situation like this to manipulate people into turning against a legitimately elected government. With his wealth and owning Twitter the man has far too much power. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that posters on this, or other similar threads, are paid to come and agitate. If you don't believe stuff like that happens there is a masterclass from Domknic Cummings on YouTube explaining how he persuaded people to vote for Brexit. Well worth a watch.

I don't think anybody is not horrified by what happened. I think there are very few who would not like to see justice done. People just don't like to see a megalomaniac interfering in the running of our country.

Also, I'm honestly surprised people didn't realise that grooming gangs are still a thing. When you work in a school you get annual training which covers looking for signs a child is being groomed for this or county lines. I would very much like to see more investment in disrupting what is still happening now.

taking place primarily in poor areas with Labour Councils

I agree with most of what you say but just wanted to pick this out. It is not a Labour council issue. This is everywhere. People need to understand this and keep their children safe.

Where it happened to my friend (and she tried to pull me into it too but I was too scared after spending one hour with the gang in question and ran, never went back) was in South Wales and a Labour Council. Likewise in the North of England areas such as Oldham and Rotherham that I'm aware of. Likewise in Telford.

I said Labour, not to pick on them, as I'm sure it's happened in Tory areas too, but because I think this IS a big issue for Labour as there are also the Red Wall areas where people are already frustrated and fear Labour ignored them. This will just add to that frustration, so to my mind this is an area where Labour absolutely needs to show they want restitution and a reckoning...otherwise Reform will do it for them.

Where I am is Tory and it is happening here.

Sadly CSE used to be known as child prostitution and the definition reflected that. When they changed it they only changed one word in the definition and so the definition is still reflective of that and still blames the child. The safeguarding teams had this at level 2 out of 4 (4 being the most serious) in my area until a few years ago. The response at level 2 was to educate the child on what she was doing wrong - I shit you not. I flagged this up and they said it was level 2 because if there are just suspicions then it should be acted as that. I said if we suspect a child is being raped how is it not level 4 and why is it not automatic police and intervention. Using the word rape instead of CSE made them sit up and take notice and now it is level 4 thankfully.

The education of such issues is also victim blaming - what did the child do wrong is the main focus of education. All education on grooming relates to the child being the one who has done things wrong - shared information etc online, gone to meet strangers and then - what did the child do wrong. The perpetrator is never in the education for these kids. The whole system is geared towards blaming the child as that idea of children being to blame still remains in many cases which needs to change asap. As I say there is only ever one reason for a child to be vulnerable and that is that they are in the vicinity of a perpetrator. Remove the perpetrator and no child is vulnerable. We also should be tackling sex crimes at a lower level to prevent this. Rape isn't an entry level crime and so those who ignore and justify and excuse lower level sexualised crime should also be held to account. We need harsher punishments for lower level crimes like flashing.

Sadly when it is teen girls and especially teen girls from poor backgrounds or kids who have troubles or have issues such as behaviour etc then they are still seen as the problem. A lot needs to change regarding the safeguarding support and the education and the definition needs to be completely changed. Sadly as a society our misogyny and victim blaming attitudes for all sex crimes mostly blame the victim and without huge change this will continue. Over 80% of all sex crime victims are blamed by their peers, family and professionals. That is staggering. We need a complete shift in society and as the recent case in France told us - that the shame and indeed the blame needs to shift, only then will ppl start helping all the time.

There is still a huge amount of work to do on this but I agree - hold them to account so they learn that this is not ok and these kids can get the help and support they need.

Saying that safeguarding education is focused on blaming the child is absolutely not true. It focuses on warning signs and vulnerability, sure, but blame lies very much on those who would exploit those vulnerabilities.

Yes, this is my point, it is STILL going on. I've wrote to my MP and everyone should be doing that and not stopping until this is dealt with.

You’re now echoing what Jess Phillips said. Quite some 180 turn. Well done.

It really is victim blaming. I have just planned my PSHE unit and it goes on about warning signs - putting the onus on a child to spot something that professionals fail to do and then say they should be able to spot the warning signs. Adults get groomed daily but fail to spot it. I was groomed as an adult and I teach about grooming and failed to spot it. We should not be putting the onus on a child to spot the warning signs and blame them if they fail. I have to change my planning to stop it being victim blaming and ensure that the children know it is never their fault.

The only vulnerability is being in the vicinity of a perpetrator nothing else makes a child vulnerable. Yes the blame lies on the perpetrators but the education without victim blaming is not there yet.

What do you mean what action? Professionals who had information, their job was to safeguard these women & they did not do their job. I believe that Labour should demand on against these individuals either through information they already have or through a criminal investigation. It will lead to other professionals in similar roles doing their job correctly in future.
I 100% agree with you that more funding needs to be given to the education sector to help recognise the signs of grooming.
I completely believe it is still ongoing .

It's not a turn around. I'm quoting what Sanmy Woodhouse wants.
I want to see the professionals who failed to safeguard these women investigates, every single one. A lot could have been done at the time but they failed to act.
This needs to revisited through whatever type of investigation local or national with those who protected the rapists over the vulnerable young women facing the consequences of their inactions

Great post , thank you. I think this is where Labour can make a difference & change the laws. I think it needs to be a criminal offence for professionals who have been police vetted & undergone child protection & safe guarding courses to let any child or young adult down if they had the knowledge to prevent a crime.
I don't think we hold our professionals or politicians to account enough & laws need to be amended so these individuals get what they deserve

That must have been so scary for you Spank. I agree with the other posters that it is absolutely still happening.
Labour have a really big opportunity to take very strong, decisive action here . I hope they target the professionals who had information & failed to act. I also hope that laws are changed & that anyone professional or otherwise who withhold information or simply fail to act are seen as complicit in the eyes of the law. Those women were failed by those we were supposed to protect them.
We must ensure our professionals are up to the jobs they are trained & paid to do.

At present it is a crime only for FGM if you do not report. We need a complete shift in attitudes as a society and a whole shift in education. We need to start with the definition of including rape as a word in there and removing the part about exchanging things for sex. Nope a child doesn't have sex in exchange for things. The child is raped and then given items. Exchange suggests it is reciprocal.

I also think that if someone knows something is going on and they report it (as I have done in the past and been told no we will not act) then there should be some way to take legal action to ensure they do as professionals often report but are told no.

I'm quoting what Sanmy Woodhouse wants.

Who wants the same thing as Jess Phillips. And you’re agreeing with her. Yesterday you were condemning Phillips.