AIBU to prefer when religion was the opiate of the masses

[Annabella92]

Rather than porn, drugs and videogames

Are you able to continue the thread without pushing your own particular brand of Christianity OP? Do you think that it contributes to community cohesion?

@Staringatthemoon but yes, I have no problem saying that I am anti Catholicism and anti the Catholic Church. How anyone isn't is beyond my comprehension.

'You'll never escape religion. '

You think not? Feel free to kid yourself. 😁😁

I haven't been in a church since 1973. My ds has never been in a church. Neither of us has succumbed to porn, drugs, drink or criminality. We live happy helpful fulfilled lives, just without the nasty, sexist, controlling bigotry that is the basis of religion.

I think the answer is to just keep evolving, going forwards and not backwards. Instead of organised religion, we could embrace the humanist movement, for example , that do not require us to worship an invisible entity, with a promise of eternal suffering if we don’t. Humanism is about humanity itself and that’s a good starting to point.

@2025HereICome perhaps their understanding of it is different to yours? Is that so difficult to comprehend?

And it is the exclusivity of criticism that I am talking about - I also dislike many aspects of the CC along with other religions.

We "lost" a friend to Christianity last year. he was very vulnerable and they sucked him in via his ex.
It was like watching an emotionally abusive relationship play out in, it was heart breaking for us, his friends, watching the control they had over him take over his life and take him away from his hobbies and friends. He had just left a very abusive ex (the one who got him involved in the farce!) It felt VERY cult like.

It's been said that all religions are cults, but not all cults are religions.

Hardly, Christianity, and religion generally, is on the decline year by year, in this country. You can very much choose to escape religion, and more and more people are doing it because they have the choice to.

I think Sikhism has done a great deal for the UK. Sikhs are generally not prone to drugs, porn, criminality, wanking in toilets and provide delicious free food. A slight fondness for tipple but only at weddings.

@Lentilweaver

perhaps we just don’t know about stuff? The community may not be at the point where transparency is possible and any dissonant voices may feel differently.

Totally expected, religion has had a several millennia head start.

@WestwardHo1 What I'm talking about is a gentle community based faith which brings people together in ritual and events and looks after those in need, rather than the kind of zealotry that causes people to start wars and drive vehicles into crowds.

All of that happens today. I live in a hamlet with no church or chapel. We have a community centre, assorted volunteers, a youth club, a residents group, a charity. We help each other out. Support each other.

But no rituals, no silly stories, no tribalism, no judgement. Some people help with one thing, some with others or not according to their skills and whatever time they have available.

@Lentilweaver

Hinduism has always struck me as a fairly chilled religion as well.

It is difficult for me to comprehend actually. I don't understand how, with the history of abuse the CC have, anyone in good conscience can continue to support them.

For example, if Tesco/Bank of England/any other institution was found to have shamed, controlled, abused, assaulted, raped and murdered their customers at the same rate as the CC, do you think that anyone would support them or that they would still be allowed to be operational? Absolutely not.

Is it the exclusivity of criticism towards the CC that you mean? Trust me, o have plenty to say about Islamic and other organised religion as well. All organised religion is a mean of control and exploitation in my view.

But, OP was specifically talking about Christianity.

I believe in God and have traditional values. But I lose sleep thinking I'll go to hell for believing in the wrong religion.

Last year alone drugs killed over 5k people in the U.K. In the US 100k have died since 2020

The entire troubles killed 3600 (and even that wasn’t really about religion), Bosnian genocide killed about 40k. Most “religious” conflicts are actually ethnic ones so good old racism is the actual reason.

Atheist fascist and communist regimes killed tens of millions.

I absolutely get where you’re coming from OP, although I’ve been thinking about religion v other beliefs that are prevalent in modern society such as denial of science (vaccines etc), conspiracy theories, and rigid adherence to political and social tribes, and whether a fairly mild form of religion might be the ‘best’ option overall for a cohesive society. I think most people need some kind of framework and people with shared beliefs - and this can be largely benign, harmless, misguided - all the way to genocidal.

Religion causes harm through power, and this takes many forms. I’m not sure there’s ever been a time when religion (thinking of Christianity as it’s the one I’m most familiar with) was a true panacea for society, for all the reasons mentioned already on the thread and many more besides. But the essential teachings of Christianity are not a bad place to start from. I also think that those who consider it an opiate don’t understand it very well.

@SleepyHippy3

but that will just lead to the same thing - enigmatic characters will be given a lot of power from people who want to give up their personal power and responsibility for whatever reason and transfer it to them - we’ve had that and that is why ‘organised’ religions created the abstract God that always roots everything back to the individual and personal responsibility.

criminal minds with bad intent will always find ways around any system.

I was born one. Lots of problematic stuff particularly the caste system.
Lots of good stuff too.
Fundamentally I dont believe in organised religion or rigid rules for reasons that others have explained already.

The conflict in Sri Lanka is Hindus vs Buddhists! Hindus persecute Muslims in India as well, that’s what the entire partition of India was about.

Religion has caused more wars, death, poverty, ill-health, unwanted children, paedophiles, perverts, and guilt than the other three combined.
It should be illegal.

Well, today is St Genevieve’s Feast day. Although she was born in the darkest era of the Dark Ages, she was consulted and honoured by Bishops and Kings, is credited with persuading Attila the Hun to avoid Paris, persuaded Merivich not to sack the city after conquering it. Her convent was famous for the education of its sisters and lay pupils, she set up hospitals and refuges. ( she also was very effective against rainfall and flooding, but that is probably less demonstrable).

So her life in Christ was definitely ‘better’ for herself and the population of Paris than porn or video games ( perhaps substitute gladiatorial combat).

@Sussurations

its a sense of being on the same page as others for values with adequate breathing space to still feel individual

I think this is a human need and religion evolved to satisfy this need - we created it. We made lots of wrong turns and got plenty wrong but we were evolving. There is no preferable system - each ideology will have blind spots that only become obvious once they are in charge. But we had got pretty far with Christianity in this country and the gap between CC and Cof E was getting closer as each recognised the part the other played. The left focuses on money, resources and work but as we have seen, they rely on the churches etc to fill in gaps. It’s so easy to talk about how you don’t need religion anymore when you have money and your needs met but there are whole immigrant communities in the UK that rely on them for education, health knowledge and shelter. Who wants to pay more tax so we bring these services in under the public sector?

Mary Whitehouse will be spinning in her grace. Everybody laughed at MW but maybe she knew the way society was heading...

I'm a born hindu. I don't like the caste system as well. I also don't like the idol worship stuff personally

In my view, 5/8ths of fuck all.