AIBU to prefer when religion was the opiate of the masses

[Annabella92]

Rather than porn, drugs and videogames

@Annabella92 yes, and the times when hospitals and schools were provided by the church were the worst in Irish history. The Catholic Church has free rein to systematically abuse, assault, rape and murder women and children and then had the power and influence to cover it all up. It's still happening to this very day with no accountability being taken. The CC should be labelled a global cult and paedophile ring and should not be allowed to operate.

Having faith is one thing, organised religion is a completely different thing and is a means of exerting power and control over a population. That is the reason it exists.

And I would imagine I'm not the only one that wouldn't understand what you meant by that comment.

@Annabella92 if be interested in hearing more about what you believe we owe to Christianity.

If I was looking for my child's first school today, having no religious affiliations would be an essential. I've raised my child to be honest, kind, decent and tolerant with a good moral compass without interference from some dubious bloke in a robe.

As a wider indicator, our local CoE vicar now has responsibility for nine villages, the congregations are so small.

Tom Holland has written an excellent book called Dominion. There's no point in going in to it here, as you're very committed to your position and I doubt your sincerity in an any interest in learning anything counter to it. I need to mop my floor.

CofE is falling apart because they have abandoned Christ. Traditionalist churches are growing however. You'll never escape religion. You might think you have, but it'll be there in a different guise.

How can you look around the World and the trouble opposing religious views are causing and think of religion as 'better'?

There were just as many abusers and addicts back in the day - families just covered it up, though. Women stayed to save themselves the 'shame'. Families put out their unmarried, pregnant, possibly raped daughters.

PEOPLE are the problem.

@Annabella92 while I am committed to my position, as a result of the abuse suffered by family members at the hands of the CC as well as the abuse reigned upon the wider global population, I am also open minded enough to have a constructive debate on the matter. I am agnostic, not atheist, and the subject of theology is actually of great interest to me. I also understand the importance of faith in many peoples lives and how much of a comfort it is to some.

What I asked was your views on what we owe Christianity, not what Tom Holland's views are.

Such dangerous thinking, it’s like going back to the dark ages.

What the masses need is to not need the escape of either religion or opiates to begin with. To be able to do work that they feel is valued, to be able to take risks and try new paths without risking homelessness or starvation, to be able to escape when things go wrong with relationships, to feel safe enough to be able to spend time on things other than the daily grind for survival and to feel that their voice is heard. Safety, opportunity, and community not oppression or drugs.

You'll never escape religion

Speak for yourself.

I don't think organised religion is necessarily the answer but what we have lost is a shared moral compass and civic pride. I don't know what the answer is.

Probably only because ones been around for longer!

See, I don't understand this. I've raised my DC to have a solid moral compass without the need for external guidance. I am a good person, so I have raised good people, who will go on to hopefully raise good people of their own.

And civic pride is very much alive and well where I am from. Am involved in chambers of commerce, tidy towns, tree planting initiatives, Christmas planning for my town, as many people are?

I understand that in urban, deprived areas, this can not be as common, but this is primarily due to economic deprivation and generational poverty from what I can see?

A lot of people will will tell you you are being unreasonable but I often wish exactly the same thing. People have become so isolated and life feels meaningless and so they have become nihilistic. We can all say "humans should be good enough on their own without an imaginary god" - but clearly they are not. Society and community is falling to bits - and you often see it here, with people's only concern being their "own little family" and no one else.

What I'm talking about is a gentle community based faith which brings people together in ritual and events and looks after those in need, rather than the kind of zealotry that causes people to start wars and drive vehicles into crowds.

And I raised my DC the same (we also attended church and they had daily Christian worship in school). But there seem to be fewer and fewer people who value morals and civic pride, across the whole of society.
The ubiquity of pornography concerns me the most.

I guess you don't actually need "religion" for this - but what has replaced it?

In certain areas, they are hanging on to their traditions which help meld communities but these become more threatened every year.

Perhaps the main problem is movement of people and the moving away from areas to work. But do we all want to stay where we grew up? No of course we don't.

I don't think it's like that at all.

Just a tiny but often used example, but what drives a person to put their shopping trolley back into the bay after they have used it? After all there is literally nothing in it for themselves (not talking about the £1 in the budget supermarkets of course). The answer is "doing the right thing", or perhaps "being seen to do the right thing".

If this no longer matters to more and more people, and the attitude spreads right across society, where do we end up?

Such dangerous thinking, it’s like going back to the dark ages.

Sorry? It's going back to the dark ages to expect men to do their wanking at home in private, and not at work in the offices of a children's charity?

Some kinks should be shamed.

I am all for community and mutual help.
My mum comes and stays with me for months at a time and I often go to hers for a month too.
My sister does the same.
I volunteer, and am part of many hobby groups in my local community.
But I do all this without being religious.

Also feel annoyed by OPs attempt to claim that Christianity will save our souls and make us better people. Hisorically, it has not been kind to people like me.

I'll make up my own mind, thanks.
Don't do religion, porn, drugs or social media.

@Sheetsinthewind completely agree that the ubiquity of pornography is such a threat to our society and something needs to be done about it. The harm it is causing to society is truly terrifying.

I can't comment about the decline you've seen in moral values as I have not seen this to be true myself.

However, where I'm from there really does seem to be an increase in civic pride. There are so many groups where I'm from dedicated to creating a better community. Whether that be OAP groups and men's sheds etc, groups of corporates carrying out their civic duty, people like me who just love where we live and are happy to plant trees, host coffee mornings, pick litter etc and then we have so many youth groups dedicated to giving back to the local community and empowering young people to play a part in the community and have their voices heard. I know I'm lucky in the above though and not everywhere has this many groups but there's been a marked increase since I was a kid in civic pride and activity.

I wonder if this thread can proceed objectively without people getting offended because THEY are not religious and neither are their children, and THEY manage to be good people, thank you very much.

Gosh, if anyone ever had any doubt that there was anti Catholicism at play then this post would really set them straight.

Straight away the focus is on them even though OP’s post was non specific, then everyone else piles in with their opinions on it (most no doubt gleaned from the internet with a few personal anecdotes thrown in). I’m as horrified as everyone else about the abuse scandals but the thought processes that take people almost exclusively to the CC when there’s any mention of religion is so basic it’s frightening. Whilst this country was pouring its bile on the CC, the grooming gangs were happening in plain sight; the scandals in all other faiths were completely played down and there were no ‘bots’ pushing agendas that people passively swallowed. Abuse is everywhere and our only way to seem to manage it is to look to isolate a group and attribute it all to them whilst failing to recognise what’s really going on.

Why is no one ever honest about this? Really honest? The abuse happened because of abusers whether they were priests, taxi drivers or family members. It continues because it is ignored, rationalised out or the victims are blamed. That’s on our state bodies and the gap that vulnerable people fall into where services aren’t available and the vacuum gets filled by malignant agendas - we know this.

Did you miss that its only one religion that is being elevated here?
OPs subsequent post quite clear.

@Staringatthemoon did you miss OPs post that said she was purely speaking of Christianity as the religion in question?