AIBU to prefer when religion was the opiate of the masses

[Annabella92]

Rather than porn, drugs and videogames

I'd hazard a guess that more people have died in the name of religion than any of those 3 things..

I can see where you're coming from OP. I think people generally have a need for a focus and a sense of community. In the absence of religion the focus is often unhealthy things and community is absent (leading to loneliness/unhappiness) or online (which can be unhealthy depending on the online community).

See I don't buy this argument. I'd say the majority of conflicts since the dawn of time were due to men wanting more money, more power, greater access to women. Sure, religion might be a convenient excuse in some cases but not the actual cause.

I mean...I think the vast majority of people live a generally healthy existence somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

Except that porn,drugs and games have been around, along with religion, for about exactly the same time, forming a part of that “opiate” of the masses!

See I don't buy this argument. I'd say the majority of conflicts since the dawn of time were due to men wanting more money, more power, greater access to women. Sure, religion might be a convenient excuse in some cases but not the actual cause.

You've just introduced a third cause of death that has nothing to do with the claim you're trying to refute though.

The claim was "more people have probably died from x than from y" and your argument was "no, I disagree as more people have died from z".

I think there is a lot of searching for purpose and community in modern times. Both of these voids would have been filled by religion in previous times, nowadays people try to belong according to beliefs, gender identity, neurodivergence, perceived culture etc. We are lonely. We are pack animals trying to live alone and failing.

You forgot football in that list.

I get it. While terrible things have been done in the name of religion for the average person it probably would have just motivated them to look out for their neighbours or some nice community activities.

I see your point!

Human behaviour seems to suggest that we need some sort of “opiate” in our lives, whether actual or substitute.

But religion has also done alot of damage to people over the centuries, in one form or another.

Not that I’m anti religion as such, but it has the potential for a lot of abuse.

Hard agree. And Mary whitehouse deserves a posthumous apology too.

Now we have seemingly smart young women proudly competing as to how many men they can service in public the shortest time. Lovely.

Religion is a lot worse. Absolutely despise it

Given how women are treated in the name of religion, I'm not sure it's better than porn or video games.

We are missing a guilt element. Nothing makes us feel guilty or ashamed now. We can do literally anything we like to anyone we like and feeling ashamed about it is not an emotion. People who do try and make you feel ashamed are cancelled themselves.
This was great in a medium dose but guilt/shame is a very big motivator to behave in line with social mores. If you don’t believe in hell and you’re not going to get ostracised for e.g wanking in the toilet at work in fetish gear then why wouldn’t you?
We need to bring back a bit of feeling ashamed and a bit of some sort of external pressure to behave. We can’t rely on the internal goodness of people!

Sorry but that's nonsense. The odd internet weirdo might not care but most people exist within fairly small societal structures that operate very much around accepted behaviours.

That is bonkers. I have never believed in god and hell, yet I feel shame like everyone.
Shame is a totally normal emotion to feel, it serves an evolutionary purpose to make us behave in a certain way so we're accepted by the group, because for our ancestors (from which we haven't really evolved) being rejected from the group = being dead.

If religious people were so concerned about hell, they wouldn't kill innocent people that much, would they?

If you don’t believe in hell and you’re not going to get ostracised for e.g wanking in the toilet at work in fetish gear then why wouldn’t you?

Err, what?

Have you never read about the atrocities committed by Catholic priests on vulnerable children? Religious guilt doesn’t prevent people from behaving badly, religion just provides a cloak of fake respectability for them to hide under.

I don’t understand people who think that you only behave well because you are threatened or frightened. I come from a long line of atheists who treat others well because it’s the right thing to do.

If we can all agree that women should have no rights, mental illness and disability is either curse or demonic possession, poor people should not challenge the natural order as God has chosen those in control, science must be stopped as it raises questions about the legitimacy of the whole fairytale then yes, religion was much better.

Where is the option to vote for "none of the above, thanks"?

I mean much of the Catholic Church either endorses or indulges in shameful behaviour so let's not pretend that things were better when the priesthood had power over the masses.

@Annabella92 you can't really compare as I think you need to be in the 19th century for the late "opiate" stage.

I can see where you're coming from here but its a false dichotomy. Most people these days are able to live lives with moral boundaries and some degree of self-restraint without resorting to religion. People can hold a strong moral code and instill this in their societies without having to resort to centuries old rules of dubious legitimacy.

Religion can be useful as a framework for people supporting communities and I have a lot of respect for a lot of individuals who work for religious communities such as priests. But ultimately religion is selling people a fantasy framework which isn't necessary to have a decent moral code. It's built on at best fairytales and at worst lies and has created a vast amount of conflict, prejudice and subjugation.

Also, I'm not a fan of porn but I don't think religion historically did much to prevent porn or the objectification of mistreatment of women.

Answer given, we can switch off the poll now.

I could get behind the idea if it was being compared something like murder / crime / child abuse (scratch the last one....)

Are you for real? How many people die every day as a result of drug related crime and/or drug abuse? And as for porn have you heard of human sex trafficking and snuff movies?