To think that men just actually don’t want to do that much after their OH gives birth?

[ShesNotACowShesAFox]

So I had my DC before Shared Parental Leave became a thing. I remember other mums saying how paternity leave is crap and it needs to be better (my own DH owns a business so took a week off each time then had to get back to work, no paternity entitlement). There was a real feel that “If only the men could be off work more they’d be able to do more to help!”. As many experience the first year or so can be a war between knackered mums who’ve been with baby all day and knackered dads who’ve worked all day. I’ve heard lots of men say things like “I WISH I could stay at home with the baby” or “If I only I had more time to help.” SPL was the beacon of “Dads can finally help out like they’ve said they want to for years”.

So we know after so much fighting and moaning for it, shared parental leave has had shockingly low uptake (5% of eligible men) . Not so popular when offered it apparently.

There’s always so many threads on MN about men who basically treat paternity leave like time off, use it to go on their “head wetting” with mates etc, and how women still have to do the housework shortly after they’ve given birth. There seems to be no push whatsoever to pressure men into doing more. When people talk about helping women postnatally they often mean other women coming over to cook, clean, let the mum nap etc. Similarly 1 in 10 women experience PND, a huge symptom of which is loneliness and feeling the mental load. Men could utilise SPL if they actually cared about all this, but so few do.

AIBU to think that for all the years they’ve spent saying “I WISH I could be at home with the baby” and blaming having to work on their lack of input, men actually don’t want ’help’ at all?

Yabu to make such a generalisation, my dh did absolutely loads. 'Men' is not just one same thing.

Of course they don't. And if the mother is breastfeeding what "help" would they be anyway?! Having a newborn isn't that hard. I'd have killed my (ex) husband if he'd been home any longer than 2 weeks

(The only time it might have been useful to have longer leave was when my twins were born premature and were in NICU for 3 weeks but TBH I was driving myself 2 weeks after my c section)

My dh was made redundant and became a sahd..... I went back when ds was 10 weeks old. Self employed.. Both work ft now and def do 50/50.

There's a small number of men who have got with the programme and realise that it's the 21st century now, but as for the majority of them, it's really up to women not to put up with it.

Women in Iceland stopped putting up with it in the 70s and things changed there.

YABU by generalising. Yes, some men are useless, but there are many men who love the time at home with their new family. My DH couldn’t do enough, he loved every minute of it.

Many companies offer much more generous enhanced maternity leave which makes it possible for women to take time off for extended periods. The same cannot be said for fathers. My workplace offers men the same as women (very rare) with 6 months full pay parental leave regardless of gender, and the uptake in fathers is close to 100%

My DP was very hands on and is a fantastic Dad. Did at least 50% of night wakings / feedings / changing etc…

My DH's first day back at work today. I'm breastfeeding and he today told me that (although he's supposed to but has not been doing everything else by himself) that he is doing too much 🙄

Totally respect your opinion, but I found having a newborn enormously challenging - each time in fact! I found it totally all encompassing and exhausting - hardest thing I’ve ever done!
We are all very different. Luckily my DH cooked meals for me and helped with sterilising bottles (some difficulties with establishing breastfeeding). Baby number 1 was not a sleeper so maybe it’s easier for parents of babies who sleep!

To be honest, I doubt most of them WANT to do it, but some men are MUCH better at stepping up than others!

As always it's about the individual men.

I'm 25 years into my second marriage and my current husband is nothing like my first.

Isn't postnatal depression more like 1 in 3?

As for men doing their share...this is one of the few instances where I do think women need to hold some accountability. If he doesn't do his share before kids, he certainly won't after. So do -not - have children with him. Even if that means NEVER having kids.

Let's be honest, more than half of the people with kids, probably should never have had them for one reason or another. One of those being, their partner is useless and so they are left run ragged and exhausted, not to mention - tied to the waste of space via the child for the rest of their life. They could have done something else with their life. Kids aren't a necessity or a right.

I'm not advocating for a full withdrawal from childbearing and rearing but I think tbh in this day and age, most of us would be better off avoiding it. Especially women. Because even when men do their fair share, it's still us who suffer more via the physical impact.

Rather than saying be more discerning about who we have kids with (because lets face it, it can be hard to know...and sometimes they keep up an act till the kid arrives) I'd say let's start saying- consider just not having them.

Same. I find it hard to believe when people say newborns are not hard. It just sounds smug, of course they’re hard especially when your body is a postnatal mess.

DP took a month paternity leave and really stepped up. He did all the cooking and cleaning and I really appreciated him being there. Unfortunately he steadily stepped off the gas when he was back at work. I insisted he take three months SPL at the end of the first year and it did help rebalance things. We’re more equal parents because of it but unfortunately I’m still the default cook.

I think this is a very wise post! My DD is only 11 but I’m already telling her what to look out for in useless men. Although IME it’s all learnt in the home. She sees her dad cool clean etc and it’s normalised, sadly I have friends who for some reason are attracted to lazy useless fuckwits and I just think their kids will never break the cycle

Yess that too! The body in post-natal recovery also. I didn’t have a c-section but even so I felt it took so long until my body felt like mine again (even now I’m not quite there!!). I was also an anxious new mum and I didn’t sleep much at all in the first 48 hours or so, so having a supportive person nearby allowing me to sleep was essential!

Yabu. DH had about 4 weeks off when DD was first born (2 weeks paternity then Christmas holiday). I took the first six months of maternity and then DH had the last 3 as shared parental leave. It was great and gave him a good opportunity to bond with DD. Due to COVID we were both around for the entire period anyway, so he was able to play with DD on work breaks and I was able to continue to BF on mine. I think if the mother is well then shared parental leave should be encouraged as much as possible. It's fantastic for the family unit.

Well thats it, often we make bad choices. Some more than others. But if you don't bring kids into it it makes it much easier to leave when you come to your senses. And it means no one else suffers as a result of our lapses in judgement.

Even if a relationship is great and they are great, kids change things. If it's great as is, why risk it?

I think we need to de-center the idea of kids being 'the norm'. And refocus on personal happiness and that of our partners instead.

My partner worked through naps during his paternity leave. He was only entitled to 2 weeks and honestly during those two weeks I was winning at life and didn't need any help.
At 3 weeks silent reflux hit my daughter and pnd hit me. By 2 months my partner was working full time, doing all the housework and cooking and was essentially my carer too as well as a very active father - as much as she would let him as she was 10 months before she fully accepted him as a care giver.

I was 14 months post partum before I could start contributing towards the house work again.
I have never felt as loved as I did then. For me the paternity came at the wrong time to be helpful. A new job meant that he didn't qualify for enhanced paternity packages. The only saving grace was the pandemic which meant he was only in the office in the morning and work from home in the afternoon when he held and fed me in between meetings and work. If this hadn't been the case I would have ended up in hospital earlier or he would have had to take unpaid carers leave.

What help would they be? I’ve had all easy newborns and EBF but DH did absolutely everything except breastfeed, which I found quite helpful as I imagine most people would. I don’t know why many women act like how badly you can treat yourself after birth is a competition and the person who does the most with a massive placental wound, surgery site, etc, wins.

This is actually an interesting and complex issue - YABU to reduce it to ‘all men are lazy’.

1. shared parental leave (as the name implies) means the 1 year entitlement is shared. If you want your DP to take 3 months off, you only get 9 off. Lots of women aren’t keen on this idea. I’ve seen this IRL and on MN. It also means that the kid might need to go into childcare early which many people are not keen on.
2. There is no requirement to pay Father’s any more than statutory and given men are typically earning more, I’ve heard quite a few families talk about how they can’t afford for the Father to take time off because the companies policy is shit.
3. it’s poorly publicised.
4. there is a lot of ingrained societal / work place pressure around this topic; me and my DP were in a restaurant for lunch with our small baby when we were on parental leave and we got chatting to the retired couple next to us. My DP was a Director at one of the big 4 consultancies in London so had a good, well paid job. The retired gentleman exclaimed when my DP said he was on parental leave; “aren’t you concerned they won’t think you’re very ambitious?!” Note he didn’t wonder the same about me taking time off to have a baby. Lots of men don’t feel comfortable taking leave because they think they shouldn’t. They think ‘ambitious men’ don’t take parental leave.

Of course some men are lazy but your OP makes me think you’ve not thought about this very deeply.

My DH was and is brilliant and took shared parental leave.

The biggest issue with SPL is it isn't actually any extra time for a baby to be at home & not in a nursery. To give time to Dad they took it off Mum.

Most women don't want to do this.

My DH did 12 weeks with our first. Currently pregnant with 2nd and he will do the same.

SPL uptake is actually more of a reflection of how poor mat pay/SPP is and the gender pay gap - in many families the man is the breadwinner and therefore the financial impact is larger. I’m the breadwinner but my DHs work offers 12 weeks full pay for partners, which makes it an even easier choice to take it!

My work have announced a new paternity policy which makes it equal to maternity leave, it’s amazing they are doing this!

it has led to a mini baby boom, but not one single man is taking the full entitlement, they are all coming back to work after the full pay finishes. I understand it doesn’t make sense financially but I would expected at least one or two to do a few months half pay to spend more time with their family. It annoys me as I know DO would if he had the option at his work.

Up until this it was the standard 2 weeks. One guy had arranged 2 weeks AL to follow this, but came back and cancelled this as the baby was ‘doing his head in’