To think that men just actually don’t want to do that much after their OH gives birth?

[ShesNotACowShesAFox]

So I had my DC before Shared Parental Leave became a thing. I remember other mums saying how paternity leave is crap and it needs to be better (my own DH owns a business so took a week off each time then had to get back to work, no paternity entitlement). There was a real feel that “If only the men could be off work more they’d be able to do more to help!”. As many experience the first year or so can be a war between knackered mums who’ve been with baby all day and knackered dads who’ve worked all day. I’ve heard lots of men say things like “I WISH I could stay at home with the baby” or “If I only I had more time to help.” SPL was the beacon of “Dads can finally help out like they’ve said they want to for years”.

So we know after so much fighting and moaning for it, shared parental leave has had shockingly low uptake (5% of eligible men) . Not so popular when offered it apparently.

There’s always so many threads on MN about men who basically treat paternity leave like time off, use it to go on their “head wetting” with mates etc, and how women still have to do the housework shortly after they’ve given birth. There seems to be no push whatsoever to pressure men into doing more. When people talk about helping women postnatally they often mean other women coming over to cook, clean, let the mum nap etc. Similarly 1 in 10 women experience PND, a huge symptom of which is loneliness and feeling the mental load. Men could utilise SPL if they actually cared about all this, but so few do.

AIBU to think that for all the years they’ve spent saying “I WISH I could be at home with the baby” and blaming having to work on their lack of input, men actually don’t want ’help’ at all?

Exactly. This is a massive issue.

In our case we actually both took 6 months off (together) but we both had the opportunity to extend our time off (unpaid) because we had good employers. That’s not an option for many people and also lots of people couldn’t afford it.

Mine is a teacher. He took shared PL, and then it was the summer holidays and everything was very even. He is better overnight/early mornings than me tbh.
We both have our careers, he obviously deals with school holiday childcare, and is so hands on.

Maybe they can’t afford to? My DP had a colleague at work who did this, he wanted to take more time off but they couldn’t afford to take the hit with nursery fees coming up etc.

Great another generalising men thread.

My DP gently pushed for shared parental leave and it was me who said no I wanted to do the whole year. It look me a while to recover so I felt I wanted the whole year to fully enjoy it. It also felt like my right as I was the one who carried and birthed our child.

My DP was amazing post birth and during mat leave. I have never felt more cared for and supported.

I have two different experiences of husbands and paternity leave. Exh was useless (he had two weeks off after the birth) , he went out 'head wetting' , left the night feeds to me and generally made me feel very lonely. I suffered with pnd. No surprise there.

Dh , however, is a very different person , he was only allowed a few days off when our baby born for various reasons. He looked after the house so that I could recover , did 50/50 night feeds and always remembered to wash the bottles and start the steriliser when he got in from his night shift. He genuinely wanted proper paternity leave so that he could be around more.

It depends on the man , but if I'm honest, I've heard more negative stories than positive from my female friends. And that's a massive shame.

I think also , that the process needs to be made simpler. I remember reading about sharing mat leave , pat leave etc and it was very confusing.

There's a lot that needs to change.

Not in my experience. My DH took 3 months SPL for each of our two children, my brother in law took 2 months off recently when his baby was born. We know a couple of friends who went down to a 4 day week to look after their children and another friend who does all weekend and most evenings solo parenting as that's when his wife works. Most dad friends we know are very hands on.

I think that SPL is great but the reality is it's difficult if the dad has a higher income (unless they get enhanced pay during leave like we did). I have also actually heard many mum friends say they wouldn't want to give up any of their mat leave so dad could have SPL. I know the uptake of SPL is very low but I wonder how many don't take it because they just don't want to to it, or there are other factors involved.

This.
I never felt more cared for, loved, and looked after as when I was home after having each of my 3.
Well, maybe equalled when I had cancer.

But YAB massively U to lump all men together.

I come from a country where having housekeepers and babysitters is the norm (it's cheap and provides employment). Women there still complain their husbands/partners do not help enough at home/children etc. I often say to them "try living in UK or most developed countries where we cannot afford external help. You have no idea how heavy the workload is for women in those countries ". Of course it is a generalization but at the end of the day, if you need more help, ask for it, don't be a martyr, not worth it and many times not appreciated . If he does not change his ways, then either make peace with it or find a better man otherwise you'll forever live in frustration and tiredness whilst he gets younger. Your feelings are valid, trust me :)

It’s unfair to generalise. IME it’s not uncommon for women have children with lazy men but expect them to have a personality transplant once the baby is here which is wildly unrealistic. Women need to look at the red flags before children because some men a waving red flags. For example I imagine that the ones who resent paying their share of maternity leave were probably financially mean before children too.

Obviously there are men who change afterwards so you can’t always tell.

I agree OP.
my husband booked the last 3 months of my mat leave as his leave under shared parental leave. When it got closer to the time he backed out and said he didn’t want to do it any more and would rather work. It would have been 3 months fully paid leave and I was on statutory and my last 3 months was zero pay.

he also spent the two weeks leave of DC2 doing hobbies and mowing the lawn and went out for lunch with friends so YANBU my husband is one of the crap ones you refer to

Neither of my babies have been sleepers but I’ve still found the newborn period the easiest bit of parenting. Was so ready for DH to go back after two weeks with baby number two. Would have much preferred him to be able to take some time later on in the year when baby was on the move, sleep deprivation was well and truly kicking in etc. Also once they’re more interactive and you can actually enjoy things together.

Problem is shared parenting leave usually only works that they take your maternity leave so if he had taken it at eight months for example, I’d have had to go back to work then. I didn’t want to go back to work, but to have him at home more would have been nice.

My ex was shit but he was a huge man baby and actually threw a tantrum becuase I bathed our baby but hadn't run him a bath since I'd been cut open to birth our baby. Ignoring the fact that I hadn't washed myself in weeks becuase I couldn't cope looking after the baby, the house and working for our company.

DP was an absolute dream. He had 12 weeks off. For one he was incredible in the birth and my cheerleader. He did all the nappies for the first few days and still does the vast majority while he's not at work. He does the baths. He gets up in the night. He loves looking after his baby and me and my our older child.

YABU and absolutely sexist to be honest. I have numerous friends whose partners have taken SPL. It mostly depends on the maternity/paternity packages the companies provide as well as salaries. If the father earns more, which is often the case, then it’s not always financially viable for the main earner to take a huge cut if they are only entitled to statutory pay for example.
The people I know who have done it work for organisations with good packages or where the mother is the higher earner. And these are very doting, hands on fathers who see it as anything but a holiday.
Yes, if you’re trawling MN for hours all you’re likely to hear are complaints about useless men. This isn’t representative of the real world. It’s like watching Midsomer Murders and thinking Somerset must be the murder capital of the world.

True. But most men CBA to lift a finger in the house even before children come along. Men are inherently lazy - and selfish, and see childcare and housework as womens work.

The 'my DH does 50% of everything' brigade will come along soon to say I am talking shit, and 'Not My Nigel. My Nigel does more than ME in the house!' 😆

YABU, my DH took 3 months off with our first child. He absolutely took over the house.
He wanted to take the same with our second but his work had undergone a restructure. He had been moved department to a more senior role. He got told in no uncertain terms ( unofficially) that the person going into the role needed to be there to build the team. If he was not going to be present then head be better suited to one of the smaller teams located in another town. He missed the leave to ensure he had the job close to our sons nursery in our town where he could do the nursery runs.

Not all men are shit, I don't think mumsnet is reflective of the general population. You don't come on here to post a thread about how your husband is a good caring husband who shares the load because what would you be asking?

You sound like Queen Boudica; magnificent yet terrifying.

Most women don’t want to share their maternity leave. Paternity leave should be longer and separate from a woman’s maternity leave.

DH took 4 weeks the first time and 6 weeks the second time. He would’ve taken more if it was possible.

It’s the shared part that’s an issue. How many women want to leave their babies if they have the choice at 6/7/8/9 months?

Then theirs the mums who go ok and he takes the leave over at 7 months, but then complain well that’s the easier part now they move and do stuff and don’t wake every 2hours.

add in a lot of companies still offering men shit pay for their parts.

let’s face it what people really want is some kind of policy that gives both parents 12months the off together full pay.

My husband did his 2weeks each time, then back full time, however he always did all time times and cooked dinner once home. He also admitted anymore than 2 weeks and he would be climbing the walls bored basically he can’t just sit at home.

I have had stories from friends whose partners : husbands took paternity leave and spent the entire time working on personal projects / with friends….

But then I know other men who took paternity leave and were the primary parent during that time when mom went back to work.

It really depends on the man (and the woman.)

I think it would be interesting to see how money impacts this too.

And your comment about PND is interesting to. A feminist I used to follow (Zillane) talks a lot about her view that PND is a lot about mothers being g left to struggle alone because male partners won’t share the load.

Well, you are "talking shit".

You might well be describing your partner, but the generalisation doesn't hold true.

My concern would have been that DH would constantly have wanted to do things, like all of us traipsing to the park, or swimming, or a cafe, or round the shops or really anything to get out of the house.

As it was, he dragged me around a forest park at a week pp, and looked confused when I said I really needed to be somewhere with clean toilets, and to have somewhere comfy to sit to try to bf DS, rather than trying to balance on a tree stump.

I imagine he'd have been quite good at doing the washing and cooking, but he'd have invited people round constantly and generally talked non-stop at me. I'd have gone absolutely insane.

It's no good Mumsnetters kicking off at someone making a NAMALT post, when there are ridiculously stupid OPs like this.

When I came home after my caesarian, it was when fathers got three days paternal leave if they were lucky. My DH did everything but breastfeed, including getting up in the night to bring baby to me to feed (I had carpal tunnel syndrome so picking her up was hard) and continued to do everything he could before going to work, as soon as he came home, and through the night.

I've watched my son in law be a massive support to my DD after both babies (refusing my offers of help with housework and laundry etc because he had it all in hand).

So yes, some men are great, and some men are not. It's a stupid OP.

The get a year between them for maternity and parental leave. DH did 3 months shares parental leave but that meant I could only take 9 months maternity instead of a year.

Where I work, we get additional maternity pay for 5 months - but this is for the primary carer. The Dads only get 4 weeks of extra pay.

My husband enjoys the newborn stage far more than I do and is brilliant at caring for babies. Unfortunately, whilst he could have taken unpaid parental leave, it made no sense for him to do that as I was entitled to paid maternity leave. If his company allowed men to take paid leave then we'd have shared it down the middle.