To think that men just actually don’t want to do that much after their OH gives birth?

[ShesNotACowShesAFox]

So I had my DC before Shared Parental Leave became a thing. I remember other mums saying how paternity leave is crap and it needs to be better (my own DH owns a business so took a week off each time then had to get back to work, no paternity entitlement). There was a real feel that “If only the men could be off work more they’d be able to do more to help!”. As many experience the first year or so can be a war between knackered mums who’ve been with baby all day and knackered dads who’ve worked all day. I’ve heard lots of men say things like “I WISH I could stay at home with the baby” or “If I only I had more time to help.” SPL was the beacon of “Dads can finally help out like they’ve said they want to for years”.

So we know after so much fighting and moaning for it, shared parental leave has had shockingly low uptake (5% of eligible men) . Not so popular when offered it apparently.

There’s always so many threads on MN about men who basically treat paternity leave like time off, use it to go on their “head wetting” with mates etc, and how women still have to do the housework shortly after they’ve given birth. There seems to be no push whatsoever to pressure men into doing more. When people talk about helping women postnatally they often mean other women coming over to cook, clean, let the mum nap etc. Similarly 1 in 10 women experience PND, a huge symptom of which is loneliness and feeling the mental load. Men could utilise SPL if they actually cared about all this, but so few do.

AIBU to think that for all the years they’ve spent saying “I WISH I could be at home with the baby” and blaming having to work on their lack of input, men actually don’t want ’help’ at all?

I wish the government would actually give men their own parental leave entitlement rather than women having to give up part of theirs if their DH/DP wants to take time out. I gave DH 3 months of my leave, and it was a great decision - we're far more equal in terms of what we do with DS than most couples I know. It was annoying to have to give up those 3 months though, I had to spend every break pumping milk in the first aid room (DS couldn't have formula).

In all my time in the Civil Service I’ve only known one man take up the paternity leave option. He took it from 3 months as his wife was the higher earner.
Anecdotally I know but I do also know his wife. She said it was OK but that he didn’t do things the way she would have done them and she struggled with it. He managed the babies (twins!) and the house but never took them out to baby groups or even the park. I do think we women find it difficult to hand over to men who do things differently.

I do see where you're coming from and actually see a lot of shitty men and stressed out mums doing too much in my antenatal group. I think it really comes down to the individual.

As others have said, SPL is a crock of shit, they're robbing Peter to pay Paul. I took 13 months off with DC1 (maternity then annual leave) and that still felt too soon. My baby didn't sleep longer than 2/3 hours at a time until he was 11 months old. I was an absolute shell of a person. No way could I have gone back at 9 months pp to let my DP stay at home. I'd still have been doing the nights as well because of breastfeeding.

My partner got 2 weeks and then took an additional 2 weeks of annual leave and it was so lovely having the two of us home and sharing the load. I did tell him before the baby came that I was going on strike for the fourth trimester and in fairness he did very well to feed and water us and cleaned the house a lot (started with skirting boards for some reason).

I agree with this.

A lot of men (maybe even the majority) don't actually deserve children.

I know a few men who did shared maternity leave, in every case they were the lower earner so it made sense for the mother to return to work once full pay ran out.

My DH was OK with helping aka parenting his own child. At the time I thought he was actually very good because my friends dh were absolutely appalling in comparison.

I’ve heard lots of men say things like “I WISH I could stay at home with the baby” or “If I only I had more time to help.” SPL was the beacon of “Dads can finally help out like they’ve said they want to for years”.

So we know after so much fighting and moaning for it, shared parental leave has had shockingly low uptake (5% of eligible men) . Not so popular when offered it apparently.

Tbh I've seen plenty of posts from women who don't want to give up their leave to give their partner any. I imagine take up would be higher if they were separate things. The woman gets maternity leave, and the father (or other woman if a lesbian couple) gets a separate amount that doesn't take away from maternity leave.

My DH would have loved to take SPL, and I hated maternity leave so would have happily given it to him. But my company pays 100% pay, and his pays statutory so it would have been financially very stupid, especially as he's the higher earner.

Yeah the generalisation does hold true... 😆 Most men are lazy fuckers when it comes to housework and childcare, and have to be begged/coaxed/asked to do it. They very rarely offer/volunteer!

Not your Nigel eh? 😂

Or are YOU Nigel? 👀

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The men in your life sound like real winners.

Haha I am most definetly the messy one of our house. My DH absolutely does the cleaning/ tiding. I also know male friends who are far more neat freaks then their wives.

Your partner's/ husbands may be shit but you don't get to generalise all men.

In my profession I see younger (middle class professional) men increasingly taking shared parental leave. I imagine it helps to establish more equal parenting roles early on. And starts to chip away at the idea that men can't ask for the leave or for flexible working. My dh is only 60 but he had a belief that flexible working wasn't an option for him (despite working on the same terms as female colleagues who requested it, in an organisation that would have said yes).

Actually more often than not I’ve heard women being more against shared leave than men. It’s very common on her for women to say they don’t want to share their leave.

In real life amount my peers I don’t know anyone who only took 2 weeks and used it to go out with their mates.

You are being unreasonable. My husband was a first class dad from the start. He also took the last month of my maternity leave so I was off for 11 months instead of 12. He would have liked more but I said no because I wanted to stay at home with my baby / children for as long as possible.

The worst one I read on here was a woman who split with the father during pregnancy and he got three months full paid and used it to go gallivanting round Dubai and Australia while she was postpartum doing it all alone

Funnily enough, I was just thinking with regards to men I've dated over the years... including the ones that were nice enough chaps, I'd say maybe only 2 out of 10 (of those I had enough data on to theorise on) would have made good husbands AND fathers. And that's not even including the fact that many men SEEM like they would be...but then, aren't.

I just don't see why women bother tbh.
Obviously it's not like kids are just for him but, if we have kids with just anyone, what's the incentive for men to have any kind of evolution regarding how they view their role within families?

I think we should start saying no.
Certainly without marriage and having known them many years, lived with them and seen them always do their share both financially and in the home. Even then it's still an unnecessary risk tbh.

My DH did/does loads but we wouldn't have done SPL as I breastfed both kids and wouldn't have been able to go back to work much before I did (9/10 months).

Not from the UK so a bit differnet system. But all men I know have utilised the shared parental leave. I think the problem in the UK system is that it means women have shorter maternity leave. Where I'm from it is in addition to maternity leave so the child can stay home longer before going to daycare and can also be used later.

My DH only had 2 weeks paternity. In my experience having a newborn was not easy and also a lot of the difficulty for me came from the sleep deprivation and postpartum recovery. I wish my DH had helped more in the first few months as I ended up trying to do everything etc but I think also partly my fault for not asking for help or communicating properly. We have came a long way since then and now things are a lot more balanced. I do see what you mean though, but I think it just depends on the person really from what I have seen with friends etc. Some men are definitely quite lazy but others run around doing everything. I saw a comment saying that men can't help or something along those lines if the woman is breastfeeding. I do not agree with this as they can do everything else in terms of caring for baby eg bathing, nappy changed etc plus general housework and things. To be honest we did look into shared parental leave but financially wouldnt have been a good move and I wanted full maternity. My DH really helped me after I started really struggling and was able to be clear in what I wished for from him in terms of helping. I would have really really struggled to manage if he hadnt stepped up and helped with cleaning and things more so I am grateful for him really.

As a dad here, who was always there for the family - it's a measure of the man how he steps up ... and it really isn't JUST about that time after the birth - it's about being a good person, a good partner, a good man. My kids are all adults now, and I like to think they'll know what to look for in a partner. I had an excellent example in my own father, and I learned from him, and (largely) modelled my own parenting on him. That's how it goes.
I suppose to relate this to the thread more closely, a man who 'steps up' will always have been ready to step up. I always wanted to be a father.
Some men will find it frightening and overwhelming - and there is precious little support for those that do, tbh. Some men will shirk responsibility, or run a mile - they're not gonna be good fathers.
[Me and my ex are no longer together though - I left (kids were already adults) - but that's a different story altogether.]

The problem is that the bar for a good dad is much lower than the bar for a good mum.

My Dh isn't useless. But I found having a baby, was the first indication I had that he kind of expected that I would be the "project manager" and this came as a surprise to me. I think it was the first time I realised that we are not near to equality yet.

Before kids everything was 50/50 around the house.
After, He asked me about every aspect of baby care even though I don't think I had ever held a baby in my life before. Also now I seem to manage every boring detail pf the kids.

When he took DS for his vaccinations, the nurse said aren't you a great man for taking him to his vaccinations.

Can you even imagine the same being said towards me.

My DH took 6 months SPL and had our twins from 6 months to one year. He was amazing and still is. They have the best bond with him.

This is an excellent summary - especially point 4. Even when men are keen to help (my husband took 3 months) the raised eyebrows, snide remarks and shock was quite interesting. From female colleagues as well by the way!

DH takes about four weeks off for each birth here.

The issue for us with SPL is that I get enhanced maternity pay, but he wouldn't be entitled to an enhanced paternity package with his company. Meaning, financially, SPL is not beneficial for us.

In his role as a Dad and a husband following birth, he is absolutely hands on. Even if I'm already awake doing the night feeds (breastfeeding), he'll wake up and make sure I have enough water or keep me and the baby company to make sure I'm not falling asleep. It's a partnership and he wants to be present. I'm grateful.

DH has always done all his fair share and when he was on paternity leave I didn't lift a finger to do anything other than feed and take care of the baby and myself.

He would have been an excellent candidate for SPL and financially we would have been fine. We didn't do it because I didn't want to go back to work any earlier than I had to and he saw maternity leave as entirely right to choose to share or not, not for him to demand a share of.

Most people can't afford for the father take a long time off!
I have a close relative who DID take several months parental leave, sharing it with his wife. It had a negative effect on his career once he went back.

My dh took a month off and was an absolute godsend. He was also fantastic once he was back at work' helping with nights etc too. But his main job was supporting us all financially.

My DH had 8 weeks full pay which he took at the start. He was amazing - did pretty much everything except breastfeed, which was pretty much all I did. He then had 3 months of SPL plus annual leave at the end. It was a financial sacrifice for us and a sacrifice for me to go back at 10 months but a real investment in their relationship and in ours. We are very equal in terms of how much we do now - playing to our strengths but overall balanced.

So it really depends on the man! I think things might be different if everyone had had that time off at the beginning that he had.