To think new mums are sometimes misled with the amount of ‘help’ to expect

[SneakyLilNameChange]

Friend recently had a baby and was speaking to me a few weeks later about how no one had ‘helped’ her in the early days. She has a v supportive partner who had 4 weeks off and did at least his fair share and then some but she meant friends and family really. The books she had read said when guests come she should go nap or ask them to do washing etc when in reality she felt cheeky asking them that and no one offered or started doing tasks/chores around the house. Something on social media suggested saying people could visit only if they bought a meal which she apparently suggested to a sibling who came with no meal and thought she was joking. Despite having all their family come, coo and bring gifts and support them emotionally she feels really let down.

It made me think actually that all sounds like normal family behaviour and telling women their visitors will roll their sleeves up and run a hoover around or bring meals is unrealistic. Some family will and it would be lovely to have that obviously but for most people it’s them and their partner who do everything. It certainly was for us!

@allthemiddlechildrenoftheworld

This attitude seems to pervade every thread, regardless of subject, 'I had a difficult time so why should anyone else's life be easier?'

Because time moves on and men get paternity leave now and are expected to be equal partners and do domestic chores and look after their children.

Because some struggle more than others for various reasons and would benefit and appreciate help where they can get it.

I'm not suggesting every new mother should expect a line of people to hand them meals and do their housework but a little support or offer of it is likely welcome.

Expecting other people to struggle and go through the same hardships because a former generation did, is ridiculous and mean spirited.

The days of a village turning up to do your cooking and cleaning are long gone I think, however from my experience it is the emotional support and friendship which I desperately needed and didn’t get from anyone.

The books and internet told me visitors would be knocking at all hours, and to put a sign on the front door if baby or I were napping to stop people knocking and waking us up. No one visited us for the first 3 weeks, and when my friends visited they came once and never again. I had the temerity to have a baby at 40 and was dumped by three friends when they were told and my remaining friends were mainly disinterested. My lifeline was to start baby groups when DC was 8 weeks old and I met some really nice friends through these.

DH’s work colleague sent him home with a large homemade chicken meal every Wednesday for the first three months, as she said it was part of her religion to provide support to new parents etc. It was the only thing anyone did for us and it was greatly appreciated.

While it is very easy to say that people are busy these days, and we have labour/saving devices so that no one should need help with housework, I think what is really increasingly absent for new mothers in particular is emotional support. Getting rid of most SureStart children’s centres is a big mistake.

I have 7 week old twins who do not sleep unless held. If I didn’t have a village I would be completely and utterly broken now. I will absolutely be passing this forward when I can.

@MrRobinsonsQuango I guess you also had a year maternity leave? I expect your mother had 6 weeks or no job to go back to.

No and no actually. I took 8 months. She went back to same grade of job as before but less hours. Not sure how much leave she had

God yeah! If I had pound for every time I heard ‘in my day’ or ‘I had to cope’ I’d be a frigging millionaire by now. Anyone that talks like this gives zero help in my experience. They want to see you suffer and find it hard. Mad isn’t it. You think your own family would want to help. I’ve got friends that have done more for me than some actual relatives. Then you’ve got grandparents on here wondering why they never see the grandkids or their children prefer to spend time with friends over them….

No, I don’t expect my family and friends treating me like an invalid, mollycoddling me and taking over my kitchen.
We made our own meals because weirdly, both DH and I are both more than capable of chopping some veg and boiling pasta, tipping milk over cereal of making a sandwich.
We don’t need people washing up for us as weirdly we didn’t let it pile up for 5 days.
We were showered and dressed and we went to the toilet as we actually put the baby down (yes, even if that meant crying) to tend to our personal hygiene.
We didn’t want people ‘taking our toddler off our hands) as the poor mite had missed us for a couple of days and we didn’t want him to feel left out.
Our clothes were clean as weirdly, it doesn’t take much effort to throw them in a machine and press ON
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

This will be a hugely common experience. But everyone gaslights new mums that they expect to much, it’s crazy.

When I had my first baby 32 years ago I wanted to show him off to visitors. I wanted them to sit and chat and eat cake and all that. We were both tidy people and babies don't make mess themselves. If you've left a mess that's your mess not the baby's. I just tidied as I went along as I always did.I wouldn't have wanted someone from work to have done my washing up or put the hoover round. We had a dishwasher and my husband could hoover when he came home. My mum brought some homemade freezer meals and people brought cake when they visited but we lived 2 minutes from 2 takeaways and a 24 hour tesco so we weren't going to starve.I can't imagine banning people for weeks or sending out rules or spreadsheets with times you might be allowed to volunteer to help. Batshit

Are Dad, brother and father in law not close relatives, or do you think men shouldn’t do housework, childcare or food shopping?

The birth rate is falling as increasing numbers of women reject becoming vulnerable house slaves.

I never expected anyone to do anything but I also made sure they knew I wouldn't be running round offering cups of tea or anything like that either, luckily my family don't expect that anyway from someone who's just given birth

Well, quite. It usually comes home to roost and then they don’t like it! But you reap what you sow. In these kind of situations you get to see what people are really like. E.g. the work friend who babysat my baby twins so my husband and l could go out for the 1st time. We literally went out for 1.5 hours to the restaurant at the top of the road but it was so appreciated

I just think this generation of grandparents aren't that bothered about their grandkids or adult kids. They talk the talk "we miss our grandkids, we never see them." But actively refuse to visit when invited and make their home unwelcoming

I'm not sure which generation this refers to but it couldn't be more different from my experience.
Obviously if grandparents are younger they will be working but many of my friends, in their late sixties and early seventies, give a huge amount of help. Several stay over in uncomfortable circumstances because they live an hour or two away and are needed first thing, and another drives nearly two hours in the darkness of winter twice a week to arrive in time to take her grandchild to nursery.
One couple who live close to the adult child have enabled the family to avoid all childcare costs by looking after both grandchildren for three days a week.

I get so sick of reading on MN about how selfish 'this generation of grandparents' is.

And as for this particular thread, it seems strange to expect other people to do the cleaning and cooking when the father is at home for a month.

Sorry about your experience. From the other side there seem to be a huge number of new mothers on here with their lists of rules of does and don't around their baby. No-one can visit, no one can go anywhere near the baby, if you don't bring 10 meals and change all the beds you're not coming in.

OK I am old and my DC are grown up.

I didn't need very much extra help. When DS was born DH was off work for a week anyway because DS was born at Christmas. My mother came for a week in the New Year.

Visitors came and it was lovely to see them. I had never had so much time in my life and if anything was hard it was sitting doing nothing while I breast fed. It was no trouble to bung on a load of washing and get dinner ready. Nothing was a mess.

When dd was born, I had a three year old. I was back on the nursery run from When the baby was 8 days old.

Independent, organised working women become independent organised mothers.

I can't believe how crap some people's families are. There's some very sad posts in this thread, I really feel for you all.

My parents and in-laws did housework, covered for naps, went grocery shopping and anything else we needed. When my grandchildren arrive we will be rolling our sleeves up and doing whatever mum and dad need. That's just what families should do, what a shame it's so rare.

I hope everyone who is pissed off about their situation will take the opportunity to teach their kids to be more generous to one another when they're grown up. Break the cycle.

But not everyone wants people arriving and implying that your house is such a mess they need to clean up! I’d have been mortified if a friend of mine suggested washing my clothes or tidying up- it implies you’re a bit of a state and the idea of a friend rummaging through my laundry at a time when I was bleeding heavily over my underwear (despite pads) is deeply embarrassing. I don’t want that.

Her husband is at home - why can’t he do it?

Yeah, when my friends were having babies there was a lot of passive aggression about receiving no help. I got it in the firing line a few times directly as I don't have kids so much more was expected of me, as everyone knows childless people have nowt else to do but be in everyone else's village.

One friend posted a list on facebook of things that needed doing and only if you agreed to do one could you receive a time and date to visit. She was very upset at receiving very few visitors but she doubled-down with it on her 2nd and 3rd and the list was even longer then as it included various bits of childcare!

Frankly, my experience with my younger sister has also soured me to being too available to new mothers. She got so much emotional, practical and financial support and still had the neck to go on social media moaning about not having a village. It created a lot of resentment; she's still massively reliant on my mother and has not developed into an independent or proactive parent. I don't think any of us wanted or expected to be thanked, but I do think if you've got time to bash folk online perhaps you've got time to make your own dinner too. I get that the baby is the centre of a new mum's world, but let's be honest - it isn't a privilege to clean up after someone who made a conscious decision to have a child.

When I had a baby no one cleaned my house 🤣 I’d have felt really awkward if they had and would have thought the place was filthy and I was failing in some way!

There is no way I’d clean/hoover/,cook unless someone asked, it’s very intrusive and I wouldn’t want to overstep… sometimes you can’t win. But your friend should remember that people were there for her and her baby and should be told to reach out if she needs more support, people can’t read minds.

But nursery back at a time when men didn't routinely get paternity leave (I'm guessing since you say your dh only had a week off as it was Christmas?), probably was a bit of a luxury?

Anyway, my dc1 was also 3 when dc2 was born and was at nursery part time. Dh did take paternity leave though. He'd have been gutted not to tbh

I agree with op that a lot of the traditional messaging about it "taking a village..." and how visitors should come and take the baby while you sleep or do your hoovering are less true for a lot of families now, but we also get better parental leave, which balances out. Dh and I didn't get a lot of help from family, but we did get things like Cook and M&S vouchers to make meals easier. My family aren't even on the same land mass, so no point expecting them to come and hold a baby

Pre-my own children, I have supported new mum friends. I always take a meal and snacks, usually something easy or even just bread and dips and something they can eat cold and one handed. I would do this if they had a partner or not, just feels the right thing to do. I have done laundry and doing the bins for a friend who was a lone parent post c section as I didn’t want her lifting. I had another friend who had a traumatic birth and I helped her with a few household tasks because her husband wasn’t able to take paternity leave. Always happy to help a friend within reason but I would absolutely be shocked if I was expected to help with basic household tasks when there is another fit and able parent in the home. I would offer to wash some stuff in the sink if I was there and making a cup of tea. I wouldn’t be impressed with being asked to run a hoover around if mum and dad were both at home, or even if he was at work quite frankly! If she dropped something on the floor and it needed cleaning, of course I’d help a new mum friend but I’m not doing routine chores for a woman who has an available partner. Things like “can I get you anything on the way?” and “let me wash up your cup” is normal but the entitlement of expecting visitors to do your housework is ridiculous.

I don't think it's too much to expect close relatives eg mum, sister, mother in law to say something like "would it be useful if I ran the hoover round?", "do you need someone to hold the baby while you shower?" or "can I get you any shopping?" if they visit.

On the surface it’s a lovely idea that visitors will help out but comments like this one upthread show that - maybe subconsciously - it’s women who are expected to be the ones helping out. And that often this ‘takes a village’ mentality is more about making women feel guilty, giving them additional tasks, and adding to their mental load.

Where is the expectation that someone’s dad or father in law bakes a casserole or does the washing up?

What a beautiful post, and very much agree with your last paragraphs. And yes, everybody should have at least an angel in their lives, like your lovely grandfather. Bless him. Thank you for sharing, it really made me emotional 🙏💐