Partner starts a big conversation, I share my thoughts, he ends it with I don’t want an argument

[Whattodoforthebesteek]

My other half, infront of his mum, discussed my daughters choices for secondary school, grammar if she should pass, local comprehensive and then threw in private. His mum v much inclined to support her granddaughter getting the best, I asked how much is private and how the be-Jesus could we afford it, esp if you take on board that we have two kids. He said I don’t want an argument. I said I’m not arguing, I’m asking valid questions. I said how could we do two lots of fees totalling £50k a year plus all the trips and expenses (we both work and have a decent mortgage still), he said we’d find a way (is he squirrelling £ or pooping cash). I said what if the bottom fell out of his industry and we had to move them cos we didn’t have the funds, he said it’s better to have had it for a short period than not at all, I said I disagreed and that it would be so hard to go from massive privilege to a comp (which is an excellent comp, should she eleven get a place mid way through the schooling system), he just said he didn’t want an argument and shut down all of my conversations questions and valid concerns. All infront of his mother!
We have only ever discussed private school twice, tonight, and one other time infront of his mother, where she was saying our daughter is so unbelievably gifted she deserves the best education, I thought he was humouring her, and given we hadn’t discussed it previously or since, I shelved it.

Thiughts? I hate not being able to ask, understand, discuss, be involved in such a huge discussion, how dare he. I was the parent who took her round the grammar school and comp open evenings, he wasn’t remotely interested. His friend has sent his daughter to a private school cos their house was poorly located for any decent comps. We moved house especially to be in the catchment of a really decent well regarded comp, I feel blind sided. I am from a working class background and this whole discussion makes me uncomfortable. I want to have a balanced understanding, I don’t want to throw baby out with the bath water, but I feel my other half is being manipulative and controlling and undermining. Thoughts please

It's a typical ego trip, I haven't really given this a moments thought but of course I the big man can afford private education. Ego trip in that he tripped himself up by coming up against reality and logic. Which is why he doesn't want to talk about it, he just wants it to go away. There's obviously some strong values coming through from his family too.

I think he was showing off in front of his mum that you could afford private school and your questions embarrassed him.

If you can only afford private school by downsizing you can’t afford it unless you have a HUGE amount of equity.

A bog standard local indie round here now costs £30k for a day pupil plus all the extras you’ll be invoiced at the end of each term - food, trips, extra-curriculars, sometimes books or specific art supplies.

My school even added £50 smoking fines to the parents’ bill as punishment for smoking in school - leading to a few awkward conversations! If you forgot your hymn book for assembly, you were issued a new one and that was put on the bill too 😂

We have much bigger issues. We nearly separated last year for same reasons, inability to communicate. We have two amazing children and we didn’t want to break their home as they know it.

I asked if he had any New Year’s resolutions, he said to smile more, I said if do same thing get same result, what does he think stops him from smiling, he said life’s hard, I said what about it is hard meaning what can we change to help with his desire to smile more, he said us. I didn’t say anything more as it was quite chat in the car and kids were in the back. But he hasn’t wanted to discuss this since either. We have discussed and agreed to do therapy, but he never actually delivers on it. I did therapy alone but therapist concluded I was there asking her to help me be better so I don’t react to him so we can be happy, she said I was enabling the situation. I stopped therapy to start couples therapy as I felt I didn’t have the energy for both, and we have not done it (2 years).

I think this has alot of truth! I think the idea of talking is draining so he tries to shut things down siting my behaviour or tone or refusing to give me an argument, when I’m trying to have a discussion. I feel so unheard and unseen and I feel I am going mad!

That is a much bigger problem. Do you think a trial separation would help you both figure out what you want? Only staying together for the kids is going to take its toll on both of you, particularly if you try to sustain a marriage in the traditional sense rather than accept it for what it is.

He wants you to listen to him. But he doesn't want to listen to you.

And he uses his mummy to do that.

And they are all setting up a golden child/black sheep dynamic with your children, which is really very serious.

She is in year 5

I wanted her to see the grammar school and the local comp asap, so if she/we didn’t like the grammar and if she/we preferred the comp we could take away the pressure of the exam entirely. I went to the same grammar school and had reservations, but these were alleviated (a lot of improvements in the last 25-30 years).

I hate the golden girl naughty boy trip they are on!!! She is 9 and he is 5… I really hate it, it’s caused many conversations with my partner. He doesn’t want any confrontation, he can’t cope with it, and in the past once said we don’t know how long we have got them for (his parents) and if forced to choose he’d choose them.

This is a difference in communication styles, leading to lack of effective communication, made worse by the fact you have now both dug yourself into your own holes. In your need to self-preserve, don’t lose sight of the fact your children are loved every bit as much by their father, as by yourself. They deserve better than having two parents at war.

Bottom line: if you knew your partner had only 24 hours to live, how would you feel? If you would feel a sense of sadness but also relief that the sparring would be over - that is your answer: the marriage is at an end. If however, it makes you feel devastated that all could be lost and you would be bereft without him, then the marriage is worth working at and fighting for. He needs to answer the same question. I do think you both need some sort of ‘time out’ intervention just to re-set your mutual perspectives.

I think he will be saying this in the morning, if he is talking to me by then.

I fear for my daughter as she is such a worrier, and Im concerned for the time he’d have the kids when I’m not there to step in. He can’t help himself he is controlling, how things are done etc

when we discussed splitting up before, he led with, I’ve done the maths, you stay in the house with the kids until they are older so they aren’t disrupted… I said I wanted my own fresh start in something I can afford… he didn’t listen and tried to tell me what needed to happen for it to work.

We aren’t married.

Sounds like he and his mum have decided that it's unnecessary to worry about 2 sets of school fees because only the golden girl matters.

Yanbu to be worried. If it's worth going private for you then it's quite late to be starting to think about it. Starting saving from when DD was 7 would have given you a good launch pad. If you were to relocate to a crappy area outside the catchment of any decent school the lower house prices might well release a good few years of fees. But this may not even be the right option for your kids.

He sounds like a controlling arsehole.

I would definitely save your money for the inevitable separation, OP. I think this man is going to drive you demented. I completely agree with you in everything you've said here. Part of me wonders what's going on in his head but most of me thinks he's just full of shit and trying to impress his mother.

It sounds like there are bigger issues here but I do think you overreacted to a bit of a throwaway comment. Nobody expected you two to decide right there on the spot where your daughter is going to school and how it will be funded. In fact I’d say he was probably right to shut down specifics in front of his mum.

I’m guessing this is a glimpse into the larger pattern of communication issues on both sides?

I don’t think you’re going to find the answers here, instead it sounds like you’ve got some tough choices to make.

It sounds like he's living a little fantasy in front of his mum, pretending that he earns more than he does and acting the big man. What a prat.

Well, he can't downsize without your agreement or send your dcs to specific schools without a court order, and no court would order that two NT siblings should be sent, one private and one comprehensive. He'll have to treble his earnings to pay for them both, which seems unlikely.

So I'd just ignore him for now. He's made a fool of himself.

I get that you're trying to stay together for the kids but it sounds like you really irritate each other and the communication isn't going to get better. You're grilling him wanting responses he's not going to give. He's broadcasting and not interested in receiving. You have different ideas of how to manage big decisions on the family's future and it's going to blow up sooner or later. Sorry but I think you need to focus less on the ins and outs of this schools chat and see it for what it is, one symptom of the bigger issue that needs addressing.

OP, I'm so sorry you're going through this. He's so controlling he's dictating to you where and how you'd live if you split up?! Huge red flag! He's acting as though you can't make any decisions for yourself.

Unfortunately I don't see how he's ever going to improve, he obviously doesn't respect you, thinks he's superior to you and only he has the answers, so isn't prepared to listen to anything you have to say about big life decisions.

Could it be that sending DD to a private school would in part be to boost his own ego, look good in front of his mates / the neighbours / impress his family etc that he's achieved enough in life to be able to afford it, and be nothing to do with her having the best education?

Honestly as your relationship isn't in good shape and hasn't been for a long time sending DD to the private school could be a mistake because there's a good chance you'll split in the next 9 years and she'll have the disruption of losing her home with both parents, and most likely having to change schools and lose her friends all at the same. If she's at the local comp or grammar she's at least going to have her friends and support network around her and teaching staff who already know her if you do split up. But I think you know all this anyway.

It sounds like she's smart and if she's happy she'll be fine whichever school she goes to, it sounds like you're fortunate to have great catchment schools. You haven't mentioned where her current friends are likely to go, and for a lot of kids this becomes an important factor when they start going into year 6 and talking amongst themselves about their next school.

How does the prospect of spending at least the next 9 years of your life in this relationship sound to you? Serious question - assuming nothing changes are you ok with that or not? If not then move on, you deserve better and it sounds like you're more capable of making researched and properly considered decisions than your partner is.

I hope you find a way through this x

Thank you everyone for your time and varied comments, they have been very thought provoking and helpful. I’ll post an update tomorrow .

Oh dear, I don't like the sound of this pigeonholing the children.

Do you see much of your side of the family or family friends who can counter this nonsense by providing alternative role models?

My parents were a bit like that with DSis and me and it has caused a heck of a lot of problems in our relationships! Children change over time and so do their needs.

Just reassure DD quietly that you will go for the school that suits her best. Clearly DH isn't going to bother to actually learn about admissions and has no idea of fees, so I think you can pretty much ignore his uninformed opinions.

I think he was asking them to contribute just by opening the conversation in front of his parents.
His behaviour to you was unpleasant and demeaning. Discussing important issues with one’s partner and putting forward diffierent points of view is not ‘arguing’ it’s being a couple.
If he tries this again in front of anyone else, I suggest saying’this is not the time or place’ and leaving the room if necessary.

There is a phrase… ‘Do what you’ve always done, and you’ll get what you always got’.
Continue in the same pattern and nothing will change. YOU cannot change him, but you can change you. That doesn’t mean YOU are in the wrong, but if you change your response to him it will unsettle him and this may instigate a change in him. At the moment you are predictable and he is bullying you.
People struggle to cope with change and you being different will back foot him. You deserve better, and your children won’t benefit from observing and living within an unhappy marriage. I’d be seriously looking to remove myself from this marriage. I wish you well

he kept busy and didn’t engage with me all morning, then started to act as if nothing had happened by the afternoon. Once the kids were in bed I asked if we were going to talk, he said not this again, there is nothing else to say, he is tired. I asked him to listen to me and said I’m not asking you to agree with me but to understand what I’m saying, he said he couldn’t make any sense of what I was saying and what was the point of wasting energy discussing it. He went on to say thanks alot it’s his first day back at work tomorrow and he could do without all my drama, and how inconsiderate I was. He said he wasn’t willing to keep talking incase our daughter could hear, she was still awake. I asked when should we talk? Concluded can’t keep on the same, either need to approach things differently to improve our comms, as we have said for a few years now, or agree that we’ve left it to too late and we’ve gone passed the point of no return. He said he was too tired and what did I want from him. I said take some time to think, do things differently, or stop. I feel exhausted, he is such a victim but often comes back in a few days more balanced.

So attempting a two-way dialogue is 'all your drama'?
I think having a normal adult relationship is like trying to catch soap in the bath here.
No wonder you're exhausted.

But if you can't reason with him, and he is just going to thwart all your attempts to discuss a serious topic in a calm rational way considering all the factors so that a good decision can be reached then you're left high and dry aren't you? ☹️

Exactly this! I feel so unseen and unheard and in an attempt to explain myself I try to stick to my own mini rule book of not using a tone or a volume which will allow him to instantly shut it down… that I become so drained and I kinda forget the purpose of our conversation because it gets twisted and I feel
lost. Eventually I walk away or I get teary out of utter frustration.In the passed I have written things down proactively to know my purpose, to allow me to come back to centre, and I have written down our conversations afterwards once too cos he will tell me what he said and he will deny saying other things, but he said this was very aggressive and controlling of me and I was trying to catch him out.

Then eventually I realise that my behaviour has never been aggressive or violent, that raising my voice doesn’t make me a monster and by not addressing things as they happen they are left to fester and mount up… to this very stale state