Who is living life the right way?

[flowergirl24]

Sister A and Sister B met up over the Christmas period. Their lives have gone in different directions and they are both late 30s. They both have 3 DC.

Sister A works 60 hours a week in a stressful job. She manages to take the children swimming at the weekends but they don’t do activities after school during the week. She has invested money in rental houses, and is concentrating on being able to have a better quality of life in the future.

Sister B works 8-10 hours a week. She has ponies and the children enjoy riding after school. She is not focused on a career at all, but does a lot of driving the children to after school activities. Sister B has expensive cars and is living for today, with no concern for the future.

Who is doing life right?

Actually, I’ve already done 10 years with that work pattern.

Yes, with respect, it is normal in my industry and just because you haven’t come across it, doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. There are far more roles in the CS than I think you realise.

Don’t come on with ‘you need to manage your time better’ if you cannot even imagine what role I do.

100%, OP.

My sister works in the CS (in Whitehall). She routinely does 60+hrs a week Most of her team and those she manages do similar hours.

It’s very easy to tell people that it’s about ‘managing their time’ but if you work in a high priority role (as my sister does) then it’s not a case of managing time - there’s not enough staff, too much work on a big issue, and someone has to do it or things, literally, fall apart. Particularly when you’ve got ministers, SoS or even the PM making demands at 7PM on a Sunday night for turn around 10AM Monday. Not all CSs work in 9-5 roles.

Well if you've already done it for 10 years there's no way that's sustainable for another 10 years. Ridiculous work pattern whatever job you do.

I’d hate not to have evenings.

There’s no way I would live sister A’s lifestyle for a long period. Both parents working those hours is brutal. All very admirable planning for a sound financial future and I totally get that, but it sounds like it has gone too far IMO. By the time these plans come to fruition the kids will be at an age where they don’t really want to know their parents and many of the active parenting moments will have passed.

I also work in a school and see first hand kids who are always at breakfast and after school clubs, and whose parents find it difficult to attend class assemblies etc, and IMO they find it hard. Plus it inevitably leads to teens looking after themselves at home for hours after school in many cases which is also a bit lonely/ sad.

My own view is also that whilst I plan on earning enough to get my kids through uni if they want to go I don’t plan on I.e. buying them houses etc. I think if you set your kids up too obviously and make life too easy for them it can actually be to their detriment.

If I were sister A I think I would be trying to reduce/ compress hours for the medium
term, even if it meant plateauing my career for a while.

Sister B I think it very much depends on whether the husband is happy with the division, but assuming he is I think this sounds pretty good for the kids at least. Less good for B if she ever needs to manage on her own but at least if she is working she’s keeping some level
of financial independence. And if she’s keeping ponies etc I assume that she has assets she could sell if she ever needed them.

I know people say some industries are just like this, but it's really unfair to staff and exploitative - why does it need to be like this?

Then why not at least go and work in the private sector and get paid adequately for it?

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

Why don’t you Google the top ten earners in the civil service? I’m not going to be declaring my income on here, but this is the second post from you on this thread about money and I think you might be in for a little surprise.

Plus I think people see the headline salary and forget about the pension benefits.

In simple terms because that’s how you get experience and skills, and that’s how the work gets done. Not everything in life should come easy so everyone can have a go.

OP’s DH works fewer hours.

I don't think either of you are doing it wrong, just differently. I'm sure each approach has it's pros and cons. There will be many families with a lifestyle somewhere in the middle and that will have pros and cons too.
I think it's just a case of finding a way that best meets individual needs and preferences. Consider what will be the right the balance for you. It might be to continue doing what you've been doing or switch it up for a while if you feel you're not striking the right balance for you and your family to meet current and future needs/ preferences. Take your time to reflect, the new year can be a funny time and provoke useful thoughts but can also throw a spanner in the works due to post Christmas blues, dark/ cold weather etc .

Sister A is doing what I call binge parenting.

Or Sister A is an ambitious woman who sees nothing wrong in female ambition.

Not much though, sounds like he just finishes a bit earlier in the evening and doesn’t work after the kids have gone to bed.

I think you need to consider whether your life is making YOU happy and fulfilled, not just financially secure. Maybe there is a middle ground where you find a job that demands less of your time and opens up some breathing space, not only to be more present for your children but also more time for yourself? Planning for a secure retirement is important but not if you burn out before you get there.

Not much though, sounds like he just finishes a bit earlier in the evening and doesn’t work after the kids have gone to bed

I thought he did a four day week?

@SockFluffInTheBath, but I have extensive experience and skills that were developed while being paid fairly for the time I put in, and I have a senior role in a regulated profession.

It would really annoy me to nearly halve my hourly rate by having to work super-long hours.

He does 4 days a week. OP says nursery child has one day with him.

Where I live, long working hours are normal, but as kids get older, it's hard to maintain both parents keeping that up. Usually, one will quit or reduce (not always the mum). Or they get divorced in their 40s, to be perfectly honest, mainly because they never see each other! I only know one person who used nursery childcare though. Most people had nannies in the home. There are a lot of ex-banker types, who did that for a few years and then got out. These are mostly men, to be honest, as are the self-employed and entrepreneurs who work crazy hours, inc a lot if travel, but the hours are not fixed so it's hard to say 'how many hours' they work as it varies, day to day, week to week. This is a certain type of personality though. Not everyone can cope with the level of risk involved in that.

One of my daughter's friends always lived with her siblings and the nanny in the basement flat of the main house. The nanny attends all appointments and does everything, as far as I can see. In fact, everyone at the school thought she was the mum for years. This family are Russian and no idea what the mum does or whether she works or not. The couple live in the main house (about 4 floors) and the kids still live in the basement to this day.

The are many families where the mum doesn't work but they also have a live-in nanny. They say this is essential for facilitating different after-school clubs, school pick-up times, ferrying about and homework help. Some people have tutors who travel with them on holiday.

In general though, it gets harder to have 2 parents working 60 plus hours as the kids get older and need more help with school etc, plus they develop minds of their own! Unless you have effective family help or staff!

It's good that your DH can at least have a day at home with the youngest OP, plus do school runs. That makes a difference. But when do you actually spend time with him, never mind the kids?

There is nothing wrong with female ambition, I'm not sure anyone is actually saying otherwise, but OP is the one here questioning whether it is the right thing for her family or not. IMO it's pretty normal to question whether the sacrifices and trade offs you are making to be so ambitious are going to be worth it in the end, only OP ultimately knows that though and she obviously has doubts, that's why she's here.

Anyone in this position owes it to their family to explore all available options, rather than blindly plough on and then realise in 10 years that they have missed so much of their children's day to day lives and wish they could have done things differently.

Neither is the "right" way to live, the "right" way to live is whatever you're happy with.

I'm in the middle personally. I wouldn't want to work 60 hours a week, no amount of money would be worth that for me. Equally I value my own financial independence, I do work full time and I would not want to work just 8-10 hours per week as that would usually mean relying on a husband's salary which I would not feel comfortable with.

Live and let live though. Provided nobody is suffering it's up to the individual what they do.

@SouthLondonMum22 I know plenty of mums, who took a break or went part time in their careers, and went full time again when their kids were older and did not give up their careers. It is possible to carry on your career and work part time lots of parents do it. Both mums and dad's.

Good for them. It isn’t always possible though, especially getting back to the same level.

I work in a male dominated industry and my career would be over if I went part time, never mind took a break for several years. One of the reasons why I had shorter maternity leaves was because I didn’t want to fall behind too much as I still wish to progress which wouldn’t happen if I went part time.

@SouthLondonMum22 but life is never black and white. I see a lot of times people telling mums especially, if they give up work or go part time that their career is over. That is not true for a lot of people. Many women can and do take a break and carry on their career and even climb the ladder further than they were before they had their kids. Everyone's experience is different.