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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel that many men are totally unprepared and unsuited to domesticity?

289 replies

JFDIYOLO · 30/12/2024 02:02

So many instances shared on Mumsnet of grown men behaving like adolescents.

Spending hours gaming, incapable of regulating their emotions, violent outbursts, dick-led decisions, expecting Mummy 2.0 from their wives, utterly lacking in empathy and care during pregnancy, labour, newborn baby & toddler years, father fails ...

But why is this?

Was it always so, or do we just hear way more now from women who are no longer prepared to put up with it and ready to discuss and share advice?

Should there be some kind of exam, a screening process before they can proceed to the next level of In A Relationship?

OP posts:
Itsmitneymitch · 30/12/2024 17:39

ThatKhakiMoose · 30/12/2024 17:35

It's not a lie. Unfortunately those women are very much exceptions to the rule. Most IVF clinics won't try own-egg IVF after age 43 because the chances are just too low to take their money. For the vast majority of women, their fertility is over at 43 and for very many, a few years before that. And you have no idea where you'll fall on the egg spectrum, that's the problem. Bear in mind that some of the people you know having babies well into their forties may be using donor eggs and not saying.

Edited
Show quote history

That's what we are told.

But I know many many women who have got pregnant in their early and mid forties.

ThatKhakiMoose · 30/12/2024 17:54

Itsmitneymitch · 30/12/2024 17:39

That's what we are told.

But I know many many women who have got pregnant in their early and mid forties.

Show quote history

Many many? That seems unusual. Most people I know didn't even try in their forties - they all had their kids in their thirties.

It really isn't common for people to get pregnant naturally over age 43, so if you know lots and lots, the majority of them probably used donor eggs. Which obviously they wouldn't talk about, given that the child should be the first person to know about that, when old enough.

GeekyDiva80 · 30/12/2024 18:08

ThatKhakiMoose · 30/12/2024 17:54

Many many? That seems unusual. Most people I know didn't even try in their forties - they all had their kids in their thirties.

It really isn't common for people to get pregnant naturally over age 43, so if you know lots and lots, the majority of them probably used donor eggs. Which obviously they wouldn't talk about, given that the child should be the first person to know about that, when old enough.

Show quote history

I fell pregnant naturally on our second try at 44 and face birth to a healthy baby girl 2.5 months ago. Has my first at 40 on our first try.

Itsmitneymitch · 30/12/2024 18:14

ThatKhakiMoose · 30/12/2024 17:54

Many many? That seems unusual. Most people I know didn't even try in their forties - they all had their kids in their thirties.

It really isn't common for people to get pregnant naturally over age 43, so if you know lots and lots, the majority of them probably used donor eggs. Which obviously they wouldn't talk about, given that the child should be the first person to know about that, when old enough.

Show quote history

Yes I know many people that got pregnant in their forties. Women are having children later in life due to many things. They want to have a life and career first.

Some examples. My friend just had her second baby at 42.

My cousin is in her mid forties. She is pregnant with her third child. She had her first child at 38.
My colleague last year , aged 44 was pregnant.

I have another cousin who got pregnant at 41.

And I can think of more. They are just some examples. I know that my two cousins definitely didnt use donor eggs. They got pregnant naturally. We are close, and they would have told me. They told me a lot about their pregnancies.

My own mum was 38 when she had me.

Itsmitneymitch · 30/12/2024 18:17

GeekyDiva80 · 30/12/2024 18:08

I fell pregnant naturally on our second try at 44 and face birth to a healthy baby girl 2.5 months ago. Has my first at 40 on our first try.

Show quote history

Yes I know lots of women in their forties who got pregnant!

CantHoldMeDown · 30/12/2024 22:41

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

Original poster
JFDIYOLO · 31/12/2024 00:48

Men can theoretically father thousands of children. They just don't have the reality that each birth could kill them, or leave them with physical trauma like a fistula or a prolapse, often permanent physical changes, post natal depression etc. They may not even know they have children.

Men are more likely to get up and go, abandoning wife and children, starting side families, having new relationships and dropping the older children than women are. Being left holding the baby is generally done to women.

I think they are more inclined to compartmentalise. Wife & kids in one compartment. Bit on the side in another. SO many 'I've discovered my husband is having an affair' threads here.

Even those who push for 50/50 - how often do they realistically stick to that arrangement, and do their half of the parenting?

I am convinced that (whatever they may say), not having gestated, laboured, recovered from the experience, breastfed, been all touched out etc, men do not have the same visceral connection to their children that women have.

I'm also convinced that many men see women and children as things, property, possessions, to be owned, controlled and disposed of at will.

And if a woman leaves (which we know is the most dangerous time), I think they see her taking herself away as him being deprived of his rightfully owned property. And if she takes the children too ...The 'if I can't have them nobody can' family annihilator is overwhelmingly male.

Then there is the well known thing about true colours only showing when she becomes pregnant or the new baby arrives. So many get used to being the centre of attention, and then finding a whole new person has taken that away can come as a nasty shock. And as for the realisation that someone else now has first dibs on the boobs ...

It's almost as though they've sleepwalked into the reality of a screaming pooping weeing wriggling puking sleep denier and it never even occurred to them that this thing that's been happening for millions of years is going to happen to them.

So how the hell do we all get this sorted out?? Where do we even start?

OP posts:
PeppyGreenFinch · 31/12/2024 00:50

Itsmitneymitch · 30/12/2024 16:57

Yes men won't give up the power. Why would they really.
Women also keep other women down by being cruel to each other. That keeps women as a whole weak.
To make change, women need to value women more.

I read a really good spiritual book recently. The woman author wrote that "what will really make change in the future is when women love and support each other more. That will make women stronger as a whole"

Visualisation is also important.

Let's all visualise a society where women are treated equally to men. Where women are respected. What does it look like in your mind?

Show quote history

This is veering close to victim blaming.

Women living and supporting each other isn’t going to make men treat women better, it just lets men off the hook.

Parker231 · 31/12/2024 01:41

JFDIYOLO · 31/12/2024 00:48

Men can theoretically father thousands of children. They just don't have the reality that each birth could kill them, or leave them with physical trauma like a fistula or a prolapse, often permanent physical changes, post natal depression etc. They may not even know they have children.

Men are more likely to get up and go, abandoning wife and children, starting side families, having new relationships and dropping the older children than women are. Being left holding the baby is generally done to women.

I think they are more inclined to compartmentalise. Wife & kids in one compartment. Bit on the side in another. SO many 'I've discovered my husband is having an affair' threads here.

Even those who push for 50/50 - how often do they realistically stick to that arrangement, and do their half of the parenting?

I am convinced that (whatever they may say), not having gestated, laboured, recovered from the experience, breastfed, been all touched out etc, men do not have the same visceral connection to their children that women have.

I'm also convinced that many men see women and children as things, property, possessions, to be owned, controlled and disposed of at will.

And if a woman leaves (which we know is the most dangerous time), I think they see her taking herself away as him being deprived of his rightfully owned property. And if she takes the children too ...The 'if I can't have them nobody can' family annihilator is overwhelmingly male.

Then there is the well known thing about true colours only showing when she becomes pregnant or the new baby arrives. So many get used to being the centre of attention, and then finding a whole new person has taken that away can come as a nasty shock. And as for the realisation that someone else now has first dibs on the boobs ...

It's almost as though they've sleepwalked into the reality of a screaming pooping weeing wriggling puking sleep denier and it never even occurred to them that this thing that's been happening for millions of years is going to happen to them.

So how the hell do we all get this sorted out?? Where do we even start?

Edited

The type of men you are meeting is very different from those I know - my DH, DF, male family members and friends.

All great fathers and parents. Married for many years and fully parent their children.

Leafy74 · 31/12/2024 02:56

JFDIYOLO · 31/12/2024 00:48

Men can theoretically father thousands of children. They just don't have the reality that each birth could kill them, or leave them with physical trauma like a fistula or a prolapse, often permanent physical changes, post natal depression etc. They may not even know they have children.

Men are more likely to get up and go, abandoning wife and children, starting side families, having new relationships and dropping the older children than women are. Being left holding the baby is generally done to women.

I think they are more inclined to compartmentalise. Wife & kids in one compartment. Bit on the side in another. SO many 'I've discovered my husband is having an affair' threads here.

Even those who push for 50/50 - how often do they realistically stick to that arrangement, and do their half of the parenting?

I am convinced that (whatever they may say), not having gestated, laboured, recovered from the experience, breastfed, been all touched out etc, men do not have the same visceral connection to their children that women have.

I'm also convinced that many men see women and children as things, property, possessions, to be owned, controlled and disposed of at will.

And if a woman leaves (which we know is the most dangerous time), I think they see her taking herself away as him being deprived of his rightfully owned property. And if she takes the children too ...The 'if I can't have them nobody can' family annihilator is overwhelmingly male.

Then there is the well known thing about true colours only showing when she becomes pregnant or the new baby arrives. So many get used to being the centre of attention, and then finding a whole new person has taken that away can come as a nasty shock. And as for the realisation that someone else now has first dibs on the boobs ...

It's almost as though they've sleepwalked into the reality of a screaming pooping weeing wriggling puking sleep denier and it never even occurred to them that this thing that's been happening for millions of years is going to happen to them.

So how the hell do we all get this sorted out?? Where do we even start?

Edited

I'm sorry that the men you have experienced in life have left you with such a bitter and distorted view.

Your views are pretty extreme and do not reflect that reality of my life and the men in it. I do not feel that I have been lucky. I feel that you have been unlucky.

Your views are pure misandry.

PeppyGreenFinch · 31/12/2024 07:07

Thepeopleversuswork · 30/12/2024 17:08

Neither me nor my DH are 'interested' in house work - is anyone?! It's super boring and annoying. But still sadly needs to be done to a minimum standard for hygiene and comfort.

Almost no one is "interested" in housework, with the exception being those daft influencers who make money out of it or people with OCD. No one is particularly good or bad at it either: it's not like playing concert-level piano or building a nuclear rocket. It's a menial task.

Women tend to be better at it because they've had more practice. Simple as that. Men can get good if they do the same. Ain't no biology to this.

This is true, it is about practice and lack of practice. DH and I have split chores so he always does the bathrooms and I do the vacuuming. So I haven’t cleaned a bathroom in years. I used to clean my own bathroom every week years ago but these days cannot get motivated to clean a bathroom because I don’t do it anymore.

PerambulationFrustration · 31/12/2024 09:24

Women may not be interested in housework but I feel they are more interested in creating a nice home (not all and I speak from my own experience only)
In my family and extended family, I see the women want to buy things for the home that men couldn't care less about.
Doing more housework falls into that.
Maybe it's a fallout from not wanting to be judged as a slack homemaker or something. I don't know but I genuinely enjoy adding those touches that I think make a place nice. Dh thinks the stuff is just in the way of more efficiency and functionality especially when he has to clean around it.

Original poster
JFDIYOLO · 31/12/2024 09:27

My views are from some experience of my own and so many accounts here by women who've suffered every one of these scenarios.

OP posts:
Thepeopleversuswork · 31/12/2024 09:30

@PerambulationFrustration

Women may not be interested in housework but I feel they are more interested in creating a nice home (not all and I speak from my own experience only)
In my family and extended family, I see the women want to buy things for the home that men couldn't care less about.

The men sure as hell notice and complain if the women stop caring about the home though. They just expect it all to happen by magic and without their involvement.

PerambulationFrustration · 31/12/2024 10:13

@Thepeopleversuswork I feel most men don't care for the additions. A throw here, cushions there, plants and lamps and so on.
I care about these things because I want my home to have a 'feel' rather than just be functional. My Dd gets that too but ds never does even though he's been on countless ikea trips with me as well.

Thepeopleversuswork · 31/12/2024 10:18

PerambulationFrustration · 31/12/2024 10:13

@Thepeopleversuswork I feel most men don't care for the additions. A throw here, cushions there, plants and lamps and so on.
I care about these things because I want my home to have a 'feel' rather than just be functional. My Dd gets that too but ds never does even though he's been on countless ikea trips with me as well.

In my experience men moan when these "touches" are absent. My ex husband would endlessly get pettish and stroppy about "needing to do something about this house" while apparently failing to recognise that he had a part to play in this while I was a) the sole breadwinner b) raising his child almost single handedly.

aLittleWhiteHorse · 31/12/2024 11:18

JFDIYOLO · 31/12/2024 00:48

Men can theoretically father thousands of children. They just don't have the reality that each birth could kill them, or leave them with physical trauma like a fistula or a prolapse, often permanent physical changes, post natal depression etc. They may not even know they have children.

Men are more likely to get up and go, abandoning wife and children, starting side families, having new relationships and dropping the older children than women are. Being left holding the baby is generally done to women.

I think they are more inclined to compartmentalise. Wife & kids in one compartment. Bit on the side in another. SO many 'I've discovered my husband is having an affair' threads here.

Even those who push for 50/50 - how often do they realistically stick to that arrangement, and do their half of the parenting?

I am convinced that (whatever they may say), not having gestated, laboured, recovered from the experience, breastfed, been all touched out etc, men do not have the same visceral connection to their children that women have.

I'm also convinced that many men see women and children as things, property, possessions, to be owned, controlled and disposed of at will.

And if a woman leaves (which we know is the most dangerous time), I think they see her taking herself away as him being deprived of his rightfully owned property. And if she takes the children too ...The 'if I can't have them nobody can' family annihilator is overwhelmingly male.

Then there is the well known thing about true colours only showing when she becomes pregnant or the new baby arrives. So many get used to being the centre of attention, and then finding a whole new person has taken that away can come as a nasty shock. And as for the realisation that someone else now has first dibs on the boobs ...

It's almost as though they've sleepwalked into the reality of a screaming pooping weeing wriggling puking sleep denier and it never even occurred to them that this thing that's been happening for millions of years is going to happen to them.

So how the hell do we all get this sorted out?? Where do we even start?

Edited

This. It describes my experience exactly, despite your words being described as “distorted” and “misandry”.

I expect I harbour some bitterness but in general I like the men I meet and I am grateful for my wonderful father, brother, brothers in law, nephews and male friends.

The fact remains that societal expectations of men are generally low and some men choose to justify quite terrible behaviour with a “if you can, why wouldn’t you?” attitude. These men simply do not appreciate the privilege of having and caring for children. And they are often unhappy in life and go around creating unhappiness for others.

Original poster
JFDIYOLO · 31/12/2024 11:37

I think this is the point - if you haven't been on the receiving end, it can seem misandrist to read of experience you've never had to carry yourself.

'I'm all right - so everyone else must be'?

OP posts:
Leafy74 · 31/12/2024 11:37

JFDIYOLO · 31/12/2024 09:27

My views are from some experience of my own and so many accounts here by women who've suffered every one of these scenarios.

I'm not denying your loved experiences and those of other posters her

However with the best will.it the world you would have to accept that the posts on MN will be massively skewed towards women who have shit husbands.

Leafy74 · 31/12/2024 11:56

Edit. Lived experience not loved experience.

JHound · 31/12/2024 13:15

Parker231 · 31/12/2024 01:41

The type of men you are meeting is very different from those I know - my DH, DF, male family members and friends.

All great fathers and parents. Married for many years and fully parent their children.

Show quote history

Without being in their home 24/7 can you know that they are great fathers?

Parker231 · 31/12/2024 13:18

JHound · 31/12/2024 13:15

Without being in their home 24/7 can you know that they are great fathers?

Show quote history

I see how much time they spend with their DC’s - they know their likes and dislikes, their favourite games, their friends, take them to doctors appointments, shoe shopping, football practice, coach their basketball team. It’s not difficult to spot good fathers. Our families had great role models in DF and DFil.

ObelixtheGaul · 31/12/2024 13:20

aLittleWhiteHorse · 31/12/2024 11:18

This. It describes my experience exactly, despite your words being described as “distorted” and “misandry”.

I expect I harbour some bitterness but in general I like the men I meet and I am grateful for my wonderful father, brother, brothers in law, nephews and male friends.

The fact remains that societal expectations of men are generally low and some men choose to justify quite terrible behaviour with a “if you can, why wouldn’t you?” attitude. These men simply do not appreciate the privilege of having and caring for children. And they are often unhappy in life and go around creating unhappiness for others.

Show quote history

I would agree in re: societal expectations and would add that the 'visceral' love for children is expected of women. Not all women feel that after birth and the expectation that they should makes it so much harder to admit when they don't.

Earlgreycakes · 31/12/2024 17:06

ObelixtheGaul · 31/12/2024 13:20

I would agree in re: societal expectations and would add that the 'visceral' love for children is expected of women. Not all women feel that after birth and the expectation that they should makes it so much harder to admit when they don't.

Show quote history

I’d also stress that many adoptive mothers who haven’t carried their kids in their womb /breastfed etc love their kids just as fiercely if not more than some biological parents.

Joe7t8 · 31/12/2024 18:34

Itsmitneymitch · 30/12/2024 17:39

That's what we are told.

But I know many many women who have got pregnant in their early and mid forties.

Show quote history

You probably know far more that are sub-fertile by their early 40s. But either they don’t know themselves, or they do but just don’t share the info.

To suggest that women don’t have a biological clock contradicts all modern medical knowledge and research. There’s a reason that most NHS trusts won’t offer IVF to woman over 42.

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