AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of middle-class support for VAT on school fees?

[TepidWatersOfManagedDecline]

Bridget Phillipson has been quoted as saying that the policy is supported by "middle-class parents in good professional jobs with housing costs who just can't afford that level of fee" and want "brilliant state schools". www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c86wd1y7v2xo

Is this true, in your experience? Most middle-class parents with professional jobs who I’ve discussed this with think that it’s a spiteful policy (including those who don’t use the independent sector).

AIBU to think that Bridget Phillipson is exaggerating the level of support for the policy?

Agree with you OP. She's also saying the tax policy won't result in any significant increase in state school numbers. I think she's in cloud cuckoo land. I fear a significant increase, to an already stretched state system

For the vast majority of the population they support it because private schools are businesses who make profits. Their kids go to state schools.

My DC started secondary at a 'great' State school - graded outstanding, church support, everyone wanted to get their kids in there (lots of middle class parents). It wasn't great for him. The lack of SEN support, lack of safeguarding and lack of pastoral care did profound damage. WIthin six months he has has such a severe mental health breakdown that he was unable to return. To get back into education he eventually needed an EHCP and the only suitable setting the Local Authority could find was a private school. His situation may be unusual, but if that private school hadn't been there to pick up the pieces and put him back together again, he would have been out of education completely. Being State doesn't necessarily make a school great. We need good schools for all our children - but they come in all shapes and sizes, and there isn't one type of school that works for every child. I wish Bridget Phillipson could understand that children with special eductional needs sometimes need much smaller schools - the type that are not economically viable under the current State system. Punishing parents of children with special educational needs by adding VAT to the already high price they are paying for their childrens education is cruel and unreasonable. Unless she is planning on completely reforming the State School system on January 1st and making small schools available for every child with special educational needs that needs them, then she is making a HUGE mistake in attacking the private schools that are supporting these children. There is widespread recognition that the State system is failing children with SEN. Given the absolute failings within the current system, the government should be actively supporting those private schools that are supporting children with special educational needs rather than penalising them.

yanbu and I literally can’t stand this woman

It's quite interesting how many of these 'middle class' people are so supportive of a policy which was only made possible due to Brexit. Backhanded support for it there!

I wonder how many would prefer Brexit to be reversed (which would include scrapping this policy)?

I felt the same way when Gove and Gavin Williamson were Ed Sec, did you?

I am middle class and support the policy. I believe that everything will go ahead without further amendments, that the state schools will not be pushed beyond capacity and some smaller, already struggling schools might close. I simply believe that tax should be paid. Difficult if your child has to move schools (but many do each year for a variety of reasons) but private education is a parental choice that perhaps should be made with caution (that you can comfortably afford any increase in fees). Finally in the MN bubble state schools are always rubbish and private schools are wonderful. Simply not true.

Err state schools don't pay VAT on things they buy. We have to produce VAT recites so they can claim it back, when ever I buy anything for.our department and we do all the buying for our department.

Also, we buy a shit ton from our own pockets as we’re told by the finance team there isn’t the money.

I'm middle class and I think it's a great policy. HTH

Middle class, live in SW London - fully support VAT on private schools. The state schools need extra funding and I think it will make quite a small difference to numbers in the state system - most parents paying private school fees will just pay the extra and won't take their kids out of private school. Of course there will be a few who will switch to state but I think the numbers will be fairly marginal. Because of falling birth rates across the country there's quite a lot of spare capacity in state schools to take extra pupils in any case.

Well yes, I DO want that but VAT on school fees won't provide it so no I do not support the policy.

Middle class professional here and I wholeheartedly support VAT on private schools. Every aspect of it

I don’t know a single person who is against the policy. Live in a pretty middle class area, with a good state school and have a mixture of friends who use that school and others who go private. Everyone accepts the policy for what it is and can’t see a legitimate argument against it.

@MidnightPatrol exactly, don't know about now but in olden days, catholic schools were known for having better education standards

I also wonder where that extra money will go

I haven't met anyone who doesn't support it in my (very MC) friend/ acquaintance circles.

The school I just resigned from was up in arms about it of course- how will they be able to pay their venture capitalist investors now?! (By freezing teacher's pay, in case you're wondering 🤪)

There's no money in education- schools now are trying to run them as businesses and it's stupid, it's expensive resource heavy (teacher ratios).

Also- anyone who is paying for school- please do 100% due diligence, the one I worked at (and the group owns many many schools..) was categorically and objectively shit. I simply couldn't stay there and lie to the parents about the provision they were getting anymore. My kids are in the state schools 2 mins from this school and their teaching and learning standards are so much higher.

I am a middle class parent.

I am an ex teacher who spent 20+ years teaching in tough, inner London schools.

I have one dc in state and one in an independent school.

I am a life long Labour voter.

I support the VAT on private schools because they are not charities. I agree that more money needs to be pumped into state education for all.

I am not convinced that this policy will deliver the promises made by Labour. I suspect it will plug a gap for now.

I would like to see greater scrutiny over the finances of Multi Academy Trusts as I am not convinced that those at the very top of the trusts are worth what they are paid.

I will not be moving dd back into state at this point but may well do for 6th form. We have very specific reasons why dd is not in a state school and I will do whatever it takes to keep her where she is until she finishes her GCSEs.

I predict that house prices near well regarded state schools will sky rocket further. Fewer children from less affluent families will then get places in such schools.

The key thing there is that you have a good state school.
Its very unusual that people with a good state school support Private education.

Quite honestly, most of the private school parents that I came across the education was secondary to having the Cute uniforms in the school photos, bragging rights and not having to mix with the grey unwashed.
Brilliant state schools changes none of that

Our school is a prime example of what can happen when kids from all sectors of society mix and it’s nothing but positive. There is no private option for Welsh medium secondary education (and the only primary option is in London!). Because of this private education was never something that we considered at primary or secondary ages for our dc. We did at sixth form but quickly realised that no private sixth form came close to being able to offer everything that our dc enjoyed about their current school.

The catchment is the entire county, and covers some very deprived areas and some extremely affluent ones. It caters for all families from those who are eligible for FSM to those who have several holiday homes in different parts of the world and whose parents are regularly seen and heard on TV and read about in the media in a variety of roles.

All kids mix with each other, trips range from a day at the local sand dunes and tourist hot spot for Geography GCSE to New York/Washington and everything in between.

Some parents are more supportive (of their children and of the school) than others, I’m sure that’s the case everywhere but certainly having a proportion of parents with very high expectations of the school and of their kids helps.

We also have the UK’s biggest special
school in our county. I realise that it can’t cater for every child with SEN but it certainly is a good example of what can and should be done.

I’m in favour of introducing VAT to private education if it goes some way to making more state schools as diverse as ours, though I’m under no illusion that any changes will be slow to work through and that the ultra rich will just carry on in their private school idylls.

I have to say I agree with her. Many of the sort of parents who could afford school fees - even if it was a bit of a struggle - a few decades ago, simply can’t even think of it any more. That is partly down to the vast increase in the cost of housing (both rented and mortgaged) but also down to the huge comparative increase in fees. Even when our dds were at an independent senior school in the 90s, fees were rocketing up every year - I never understood exactly how it was justified.

My thoughts exactly when I first read this too.

Our local state Catholic school is the worst in the area and getting worse. It has falling numbers and shrinking year groups.

Technically in the secondary system there is capacity because of this school but very few choose to send their child there. It's usually either their local school, for parents who don't put down any preference or who put only one (oversubscribed) school thinking that means they'll definitely get in.

Overall birth rates are shrinking but we have had huge numbers of new houses built which bumps up population numbers and puts pressure on certain schools.

We also have a thriving private school group which will be minimally impacted because of its reputation locally. If you can afford a new build family house in our area you are already very well off!

A lot of those who do support the policy don’t actually understand it (evidenced by the many posts on mumsnet over the past few months). Many believe that all schools have charitable status and that VAT is somehow linked with this. Many believe that private schools haven’t been paying VAT to date (incorrect, as they have been paying unrecoverable input VAT). They don’t understand that private schools already pay more tax than the state schools. Many don’t understand the difference between scholarships and bursaries

so if you agree with VAT you’re a bit thick eh @Another76543 ?

how about I understand all that and I truly don’t care that users of private education will pay more VAT. I have lots of friends (South East London here - posh part) that use private schools and they all support the policy.