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This country as gone into terminal decline

1000 replies

Carmes · 29/12/2024 08:38

I have 2 young children in school.

I am becoming more and more anxious about what sort of jobs / careers they will have open to them.

I work for very large company with 10,000s of employees.

20 years ago whe I started work here there would be 100s of entry level jobs at any given time. These are jobs that don't require experience or a degree, ideal for a school leaver, and I know dozens of people who started their career this way.

Now there are maybe 10 jobs that would fit the same criteria.so. All the jobs have been offshored.
Now are the vacancies are for very specific technical skill set or experience.

This doesn't bode well for someone who has left school at 18'or even university.

OP posts:
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Strikeoutnow · 29/12/2024 15:32

( produce not terminate ie fewer babies including from the Third World so no idea where you get the idea about elderly people? Somewhat bizarre and inflammatory?!)

Because my posts have repeatedly referred to this country & you are replying to me saying we need to have less dc & reduce the population. Population growth in the UK has been driven by people living longer & immigration & not birth rates for years.

Vignoble · 29/12/2024 15:35

@Solent123 While wondering, you may wish to steer clear of 'models' such as Norway and Switzerland.

Norway has a sovereign wealth fund - the only meaningful one in Europe and at $1.5 trillion the 4th largest in the world. After WW2 the country adopted a protocol of high taxes and unity to rebuild. Oil was a key contributor and importantly avarice is not really present, wealth is merely a by product. There is a national psyche which is different to the UK and don't forget Norway has a population of 5m compared to the UKs 70m.

Switzerland has many unique factors, but mainly being placed in a remote, mountainous area between the industrial mights of Germany and the Lombardy region, meant it was well-placed centuries ago to provide secretive banking, lending and commodity services. During the European wars, Swiss banks were a safe haven for merchants who did not have the mercenary protections afforded by the elite landed classes who often owned the armies. The Swiss economy is based on banking, finance, commodities - especially gold, pharma, medical equipment, with at least 25% undisclosed intangible transactions. This is the type of economy both the recent conservative government and Starmer's government have shown no desire to follow.

CptWibblyChops · 29/12/2024 15:39

"Now are the vacancies are for very specific technical skill set or experience."

Just diving in - yeah, to get into any job with prospects you need a degree - not that you need a degree as such to do the work, it's just to get your foot in the door. Or equivalent experience, which is hard to get for a youngster starting out without a degree. Uni costs as well, it was bad during my time .. mumble .. mumble .. decad - erm years ago.

Ihopeithinkiknow · 29/12/2024 15:44

@MyPithyPoster no I didn't need to get anything off my chest but thanks for the concern and also well done for missing the point I was making

ObelixtheGaul · 29/12/2024 15:45

Cheesencrumpets · 29/12/2024 12:36

Of course we will, but I’m hoping we’ll have a party who realises that to create growth, people need more money and so won’t rely on taxes to keep the country trundling along at such a low level.

We might get that when we have a population that doesn't expect the state to keep topping up low wages, keep children for longer and longer hours at schools that must provide a bespoke service tailored for every individual need, wants medical treatment to be free at point of use ... And the list goes on. We want everything, but nobody wants to pay for it. If we genuinely want to pay lower tax, we will have to accept as a nation that things we expect to be subsidised won't be. If businesses want to pay less tax, they'll have to expect the minimum wage to increase so the government isn't picking up the shortfall.

A low-tax, high growth economy only works when people accept state provision is not granted by the existence of a magic money tree. Yes, there could be much better money management, but the fact is, there hasn't been, which means we simply don't have the money to keep it all up.

Lovely as it would be to keep paying every pensioner regardless of need a winter fuel payment, if we want it like that, we will have to pay taxes. Great as it would be for every school to open from 7am to 7pm 365 days a year so parents can take holidays when it suits them and don't have big childcare bills, somebody has to pay for that. Much as we would all love a better equipped, better staffed medical service, somebody has to pay for that.

As a nation, we want it all ways. We want cheap/free AND low taxes. It just doesn't work like that. We want a better deal for farmers, but we want to pay less and less for our local produce. Over the past 40 years we have killed our farming industry by allowing the supermarkets to set prices and import cheap goods to compete. One government takes away one benefit from farmers regarding inheritance tax and it's not 40 years of letting big supermarkets have all the buying power so we can have cheap food that's killed the industry, it's making a small number of landowners pay a reduced inheritance tax.

We buy cheap, mass-produced items from countries with appalling wages and conditions and moan we haven't any industry left, blaming high taxes and regulation, despite the fact that none of us would work 12 hours a day for 10 pence an hour. When we were willing to have less but pay more, we had a thriving industry. But we wanted fast fashion, cheap toys, all the latest gear at slave labour prices.

It's all come at a massive cost. One way or another, either by lowering tax and accepting individuals will have to pay more for goods and services, or raising taxes and accepting that in exchange for the services we have come to expect, we have to start being realistic about what it costs to raise and educate children, have the best medical care, eat locally grown produce.

We have, in fact, become disassociated with the realities of the sheer cost of having everything we want without relying on somebody in another country working for a pittance with none of the rights and safety we expect. We have no idea what the major surgery we get when we need it would actually cost if we had to pay for it without the NHS.

The only way for us to have low tax high growth is for us to be willing to find out what an unsubsidised life really looks like. And given some of the reactions to some of the latest government policies, we really aren't ready to find out.

Kittiwakeup · 29/12/2024 15:46

Shitgift · 29/12/2024 15:16

I'm currently learning French with the notion that I might move there in early retirement as my money will go a lot further out there and the lifestyle is much better.

Brexit may make that a little tricky.

rainingsnoring · 29/12/2024 15:48

Noras · 29/12/2024 15:28

Labour were absolute lunatics to introduce this as the same time as all the other changes eg increase in minimum wage etc.

They should have floated the way or away from recession not driven fall speed into it due to the so called ‘black hole.’ That could have been cured by increased productivity/ consumer confidence and greater tax takes. Now they will have lower tax taxes and a diminishing base from which to draw taxes so higher taxes.

Sadly most people in Labour have not run a business or indeed worked for many years in the private sector etc so don’t understand that business confidence and consumer confidence are critical things.

I agree with you that the timing has been very poor.

I disagree that they can improve productivity and consumer confidence. These things are pretty much impossible to improve at this very late hour, given the politics of the last 40 years. People can't be more confident if they have less money in their pockets year after year. The economy has only survived this long because of debt and credit!

rainingsnoring · 29/12/2024 15:50

'The only way for us to have low tax high growth is for us to be willing to find out what an unsubsidised life really looks like. And given some of the reactions to some of the latest government policies, we really aren't ready to find out.'

Exactly. The uproar over the withdrawal of the WFA from all but the poorest pensioners demonstrated that pretty clearly.

Shitgift · 29/12/2024 15:53

Kittiwakeup · 29/12/2024 15:46

Brexit may make that a little tricky.

I'm extremely fortunate to have eligibility for an Irish passport. I understand not everyone is in that position, the eligibility to work in the Schengen zone is sadly indeed a big barrier for a lot of people.

hattie43 · 29/12/2024 15:57

I think the argument for higher taxes and better services is sensible however no government would be the one to introduce this because of the British sense of ' fairness' and there is an increasing feeling of unfairness with those contributing to society being asked to pay more and more to cover the costs of those who contribute nothing .

Strikeoutnow · 29/12/2024 15:58

As a nation, we want it all ways. We want cheap/free AND low taxes.

Yes

Onceuponatime9 · 29/12/2024 16:02

Ihopeithinkiknow · 29/12/2024 13:13

@MyPithyPoster my son was born with a life limiting disease (Cystic Fibrosis) and it must have cost hundreds of thousands of pounds a year for all the medication and shit he was on but luckily he died in an accident aged 22 so that has saved a bit of money hasn't it phew

I know I'm being a bitch but fucking hell lol have you heard yourself

You are certainly not being a bitch. Your feelings here are understandable. Your son was worth every pound spent on him. No human life is worth more regardless of age,disability or anything that differentiates them from the so called norm. As long as we go on improving treatments we have a responsibility to make sure funding is available for all.

MyPithyPoster · 29/12/2024 16:07

Ihopeithinkiknow · 29/12/2024 15:44

@MyPithyPoster no I didn't need to get anything off my chest but thanks for the concern and also well done for missing the point I was making

it was an utterly irrelevant point to the conversation, although I am sorry for your loss obviously

hattie43 · 29/12/2024 16:08

@Onceuponatime9

That's not strictly true is it . Strength and survival of the fittest has been key since evolution. The difference is modern society says we look after and provide for the vulnerable.

Kittiwakeup · 29/12/2024 16:11

Shitgift · 29/12/2024 15:53

I'm extremely fortunate to have eligibility for an Irish passport. I understand not everyone is in that position, the eligibility to work in the Schengen zone is sadly indeed a big barrier for a lot of people.

Ah that's fortunate. I really wish we had Irish passports. I love France.

Kittiwakeup · 29/12/2024 16:12

hattie43 · 29/12/2024 16:08

@Onceuponatime9

That's not strictly true is it . Strength and survival of the fittest has been key since evolution. The difference is modern society says we look after and provide for the vulnerable.

Read the room please.

aldisud · 29/12/2024 16:17

Thepeopleversuswork · 29/12/2024 10:19

@LutherVandrossessuit

That’s all hunky dory if you want to be a plumber or an electrician but not everyone can or wants to do that?

I am tired of “get a job as a plumber or electrician” being presented as the silver bullet answer to every problem.

What about kids whose skills and interests lie in the knowledge or creative skills. People are talking as if they have no right to be employed.

The UK had historically been very strong in these areas. If we disincentivize kids from working in these industries because everyone should be a plumber or electrician we are doing them and our economy a massive disservice.

Edited

Very right. Someone up thread said there was no point to history or English degrees ....so, does this person not watch tv, go to museums, read journalism, have an interest in govt policy, want civil servants who can read documents critically etc etc.....

Lentilweaver · 29/12/2024 16:27

aldisud · 29/12/2024 16:17

Very right. Someone up thread said there was no point to history or English degrees ....so, does this person not watch tv, go to museums, read journalism, have an interest in govt policy, want civil servants who can read documents critically etc etc.....

I do. In fact I am an obsessive museum goer and reader of newspapers and books.

But it would be hard for my DC to make a decent living in certain industries. I dont think it is bad to acknowledge this.

LadyTiredWinterBottom2 · 29/12/2024 16:27

Strikeoutnow · 29/12/2024 09:31

We do not have a falling population. Because of people living longer & immigration. We have a problem with demographics with more over 65s than under 15 yr olds.

But we do have a drop in the birthrate. Because l suspect many can't afford it these days.

MyPithyPoster · 29/12/2024 16:43

Lentilweaver · 29/12/2024 16:27

I do. In fact I am an obsessive museum goer and reader of newspapers and books.

But it would be hard for my DC to make a decent living in certain industries. I dont think it is bad to acknowledge this.

But that’s always been the balancing act. The ideal scenario is the job that you love that pays well but 99.9% of people do a job they don’t love. That probably doesn’t pay well either.
With the remaining few doing a job, they do love that doesn’t pay.

Parker231 · 29/12/2024 16:56

Kittiwakeup · 29/12/2024 16:11

Ah that's fortunate. I really wish we had Irish passports. I love France.

Am very glad I didn’t apply for British citizenship. My EU passport is now so valuable together with the benefit for DC’s.

Kittiwakeup · 29/12/2024 17:02

It's all very well saying we need the richness of a whole raft of degrees as that is good for the country as a whole. There is an element of truth to this of course. I love the arts but economic reality has to kick in at some point. For example, of course English is a well respected and intellectually challenging degree. However, it is now also one of the least valuable in terms of leverage into a well paid job. Young people need to take this into account when they are choosing degrees unless they come from a very wealthy family and don't have to worry about what they will be earning later.

Snowmanscarf · 29/12/2024 17:07

MyPithyPoster · 29/12/2024 16:43

But that’s always been the balancing act. The ideal scenario is the job that you love that pays well but 99.9% of people do a job they don’t love. That probably doesn’t pay well either.
With the remaining few doing a job, they do love that doesn’t pay.

That’s always been the case, not just modern times.

Vettrianofan · 29/12/2024 17:10

Bagpuss2022 · 29/12/2024 15:08

Yeah I agree my eldest has just completed his masters and has a remote digital job alongside his part time managers job in retail to pay the bills my middle is a qualified plumber so he’s done well , I’m really worried about our youngest who’s still in high school she wants to join the forces after university but we will see .

Your youngest can join the forces without going to university first? Get training on the job?

lifeonmars100 · 29/12/2024 17:11

aldisud · 29/12/2024 16:17

Very right. Someone up thread said there was no point to history or English degrees ....so, does this person not watch tv, go to museums, read journalism, have an interest in govt policy, want civil servants who can read documents critically etc etc.....

I didn't see this comment, English and History were subjects I was good at and interested in. i think that studying them gave me the skills to read information fast, to read it critically, to fact check, to research and to use evidence to back up my arguments. Useful in most work locations I would think

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