To stop looking after my SIL"s kids at family gatherings?

[Beachcomber]

SIL and BIL have 2 boys, 4yo and 6yo. When they are with family they seem to think that it is some sort of break for them and that naturally their kids will be looked after by.... someone. They don't seem to care who. It's been like this since they were born.

This often falls to my MIL Often DH, me and my young adult kids will do it in order to give MIL a break or let her get on with cooking a meal for 15 people.

I hate it. Not because I mind looking after the kids but because I feel like I'm enabling something that is wrong. The parents always make sure they are sitting at the other end of the table to their kids and then ignore them. My 18 yo DD had to pull a large piece of parma ham out of the 4yp"s mouth at one point as he was starting to choke on it.
I had to intercept both kids being handed a large bowl of soup that had literally just been taken off the boil.
And we spend the entire meal cutting up their food (otherwise they stuff huge bits in their mouths), reminding them to chew, stopping them from eating ridiculous amounts, etc, etc.

We also played a lot with them and took them out for walks, took the little one to the toilet, etc.

The older child is also quite violent towards his little brother. At one point I had to intervene as he had his brother in a headlock and was choking him. It was really bad. The little one was choking and coughing and obviously frightened. I pointed out to their mum what had happened and she ineffectively made noises about Santa taking presents back. Older child laughed in her face and retorted that Santa doesn't exist. Nothing was done to explain to the child how dangerous / unacceptable it is to choke someone.

We will be having another big family meal this week and I've had enough of participating in allowing SIL and BIL to neglect their turbulent and obviously troubled kids.

I don't want to do it anymore. Or certainly not without saying something. Obviously I wouldn't leave a child to choke to make a point. But I think at the very least we should say something. MIL will try to stop me though (she massively enables all this).

I know I will create tension and my PILs will have a go at me but at the next family meal I want to decline for my and my kids to be placed at the table near my nephews and point out that we looked after them all over Christmas so perhaps their parents should parent them.

I know it probably won't make any difference and DH doesn't want me to do it for that reason. AIBU for doing it anyway?

I agree with @ImmortalSnowman and @BessiePage . I'd be bowing out of family gatherings if I knew they would be there.

As long as you keep bailing out the parents it will continue to happen and it will get worse as the DC get older. So step back, absent yourself (and make it clear only to MiL why) and at least you won't be there to see it.

Confronting the parents will do absolutely no good. Why should they change when as it is they can abstain from parenting because others will do their job for them? They have no impetus to change. At least absenting yourselves will reduce the number of 'rescuer' and perhaps they, too, will get tired of always being on tenterhooks and slowly back away, too.

And as far as the 'big family parties give parents a break". Oh, give over! Sure, there may be a bit of help here and there; in getting a child a drink, playing with them a bit, or distracting them. But not having to wholesale take over whilst the parents sit idly by enjoying themselves.

Sounds like your SIL and BIL are exhausted parents, who are probably overwhelmed by their own naughty (probably under disciplined) kids and desperately need a break. Your MIL seems to see this.

if you don’t want to give them a break, enable their approach of just assuming they’d be granted a break, then don’t. If you don’t think it’s your problem, back away.

Envious that you have such lovely kids to help you out and so
many people for Xmas but yes their parents need to be parents x

I think it’s time ALL of the adults get together and have a very stern talk with the parents of these kids. Give examples of how many times their neglect has put them at risk in their presence and how they need to step up - consistently and permanently - or CPS are going to be called. You can’t expect them to be any better when the kids are at home. Poor little buggers are raising themselves.

Can you start calling out your SIL and BIL in the moment? Things like
“SIL/BIL, your kids need their food cut, they are struggling with the knife” then put the plate down in front of her/hand her the plate.
“DS2 wants you to take him to the toilet” then leave him with them and walk off.

I’ve had to do this with a relative because they completely ignore their children. The trick is to call them out and then immediately be busy so they can’t pawn them back off on you. I’ve also taught my older teens to quote their rates for babysitting to this relative when they have tried to pawn their kids off on my teens.

Everyone enables them because you end up doing the work. If you push back and stop doing it, others often refuse also and the parents have to start parenting their kids.

Just make it clear that at family gatherings they need to be responsible for their own children. I would also raise the issue of behavioural problems regarding your nephew, who sounds like he has serious problems.

You’re also enabling them just like your MIL is. Time to stop. Sit well away from the kids, and tell their parents that their kids need tending to.

I’d tell them that Children’s Services clearly need to be involved. Poor kids.

My mum would get us by that tender muscle in the upper arm - the one deep down in the middle that hurts when you’re a little kid and an adult squeezes it - and march us to wherever we belonged. Lol we call it “the grip.”
Use The Grip and march those kids right back to their parents and announce “you forgot these.”
Between the two of you, rehearse not taking no for an answer, ever, under any circumstances.
Do it over and over and over again until they get the hint that the children are no longer your problem.
Or you could flat out tell them “your children are no longer our problem.”
Yep. That’s the ticket.
We’re all expecting a good report next time.
Good luck with this assignment.
This message probably won’t self destruct, so sending love. ❤️

Who decides seating arrangements on these occasions? Is it a free for all? If so, you could either make sure you get you part of the family in one section to enable pushing their children closer to them, or whenever they need assistance be very vocal at calling the parents down to help, ie "child 1 name needs his food cut up, can you come sort it?" Put them on the stop to have to sort their own kids. Or make some nice places settings, saying you thought it would be a really cute idea and then put they kids between the parents?

These ways are maybe a bit more subtle than just having a go, but I don't blame you for feeling that way I would too, you have done that bit with your kids, it's not your job to sort someone else's.

Maybe if you don’t want a huge intervention with them, get together with family and discuss how you are all enabling the neglect, and throw around some techniques mentioned above to get them to take responsibility.

Ignore and call BIL and SIL out. ‘BIL little Johnny needs to be taken to the toilet’ , ‘SiL little Jane needs her food cut’ and so on. Don’t do any of the parenting for them (or let your kids do it). I have relatives that do the same but I can’t be a*sed with their kids. If my DC is there, I parent mine and if not, I enjoy my break.

You sound a bit overly fussy and interfering and they sound the extreme opposite. You can’t really expect them to parent like you, so you either have to babysit or leave them to it.

I had to intercept both kids being handed a large bowl of soup that had literally just been taken off the boil.And we spend the entire meal cutting up their food (otherwise they stuff huge bits in their mouths), reminding them to chew, stopping them from eating ridiculous amounts, etc, etc.

This is ridiculous, particularly for the six year old. A six year old is allowed a bowl of hot soup. They are both school aged and eat school dinners every day, cutting up their own food, and understanding how to chew (?!). Portion size is none of your concern. Butt out.

Some things don't make sense here.

Why not give children dinner earlier to avoid them being starving and cramming food and potentially choking on it?

I would get quite annoyed when PIL would serve lunch at 2 or dinner at 7.30 for my young children who were by then starving and I'd had to surreptitiously serve them snacks if I had any - which was very frowned upon. One of my children would get very hangry and act up.

Why would anyone serve up boiling soup to a child? Isn't that on the person cooking? Bringing soup to the table so hot it could cause burns to anyone seems strange. Who handed it to the child?

As for table manners - my DH and I have tried to drum manners into my children from a young age but at 4 and 6 they were pretty dreadful despite significant efforts from us. I don't know what we could have done differently TBH. They are older now and still struggle with cutlery and table manners. They both have some physical and mental aspects that make it trickier for them but we didn't realise until they were a bit older. We have to pick our battles to some extent.

Their parents chose to have them.

It also sounds like they're getting plenty of childcare throughout the year...

This sounds awful. I would suggest saying 'no ask your Mummy/Daddy' if they need food cutting or taking to toilet. But I'd still oversee them in risky situations as it's obvious the parents don't care and I couldn't let anything bad happen to them.

This is a really tricky situation.

I know you are not in the UK. I am a teacher in the UK and in the latest safeguarding training I did, I noticed a section had been added on "affluent neglect." If you Google that term, you may find some advice that could help you. You could also look at the Lundy Bancroft resources online and see if anything chimes. DH could try to subtly check his DSis is OK?

If I were you I would minimise my exposure to these situations. If the couple were overwhelmed by parenting and hopeless, that would be one thing, but if the BIL is a controlling dominator, this could end badly if you try to intervene. You or your adult DC could be blamed for an accident or injury.

Things you could consider would be: attending the event but staying elsewhere; attending but coming after the meal; taking a holiday somewhere else one year to break the pattern; doing more hosting yourself.

It all sounds very stressful!

I have an additional question which is if you think these children are being properly fed aside from these meals?