To stop looking after my SIL"s kids at family gatherings?

[Beachcomber]

SIL and BIL have 2 boys, 4yo and 6yo. When they are with family they seem to think that it is some sort of break for them and that naturally their kids will be looked after by.... someone. They don't seem to care who. It's been like this since they were born.

This often falls to my MIL Often DH, me and my young adult kids will do it in order to give MIL a break or let her get on with cooking a meal for 15 people.

I hate it. Not because I mind looking after the kids but because I feel like I'm enabling something that is wrong. The parents always make sure they are sitting at the other end of the table to their kids and then ignore them. My 18 yo DD had to pull a large piece of parma ham out of the 4yp"s mouth at one point as he was starting to choke on it.
I had to intercept both kids being handed a large bowl of soup that had literally just been taken off the boil.
And we spend the entire meal cutting up their food (otherwise they stuff huge bits in their mouths), reminding them to chew, stopping them from eating ridiculous amounts, etc, etc.

We also played a lot with them and took them out for walks, took the little one to the toilet, etc.

The older child is also quite violent towards his little brother. At one point I had to intervene as he had his brother in a headlock and was choking him. It was really bad. The little one was choking and coughing and obviously frightened. I pointed out to their mum what had happened and she ineffectively made noises about Santa taking presents back. Older child laughed in her face and retorted that Santa doesn't exist. Nothing was done to explain to the child how dangerous / unacceptable it is to choke someone.

We will be having another big family meal this week and I've had enough of participating in allowing SIL and BIL to neglect their turbulent and obviously troubled kids.

I don't want to do it anymore. Or certainly not without saying something. Obviously I wouldn't leave a child to choke to make a point. But I think at the very least we should say something. MIL will try to stop me though (she massively enables all this).

I know I will create tension and my PILs will have a go at me but at the next family meal I want to decline for my and my kids to be placed at the table near my nephews and point out that we looked after them all over Christmas so perhaps their parents should parent them.

I know it probably won't make any difference and DH doesn't want me to do it for that reason. AIBU for doing it anyway?

Could have written this myself!
Days out are the worst.... They just wander off while little one is walking across the car park or there's a river or super busy. It's like they don't exist till they are at they at their limit then 0-10. Drives me mad. It always falls on me. My husband tells me to stop but then I think what happens when they get hit by a car or lost when no ones watching. I don't understand how people can parent like it!

Just don’t do it. Deposit the child with his parents each time there’s a request or a need that wants attending to.

I said in a loud voice when we were going to the table at Christmas that maybe it would be practical for SIL or BIL to be near the kids and MIL said no, they are fine where they are.

So, who did that leave sitting next to the kids-MIL herself, or was she just volunteering you to do it and sitting somewhere else herself?

I would say something to her. ‘Can we do a seating plan for x day? I think the children should be seated near their parents’.

If she says no, I would ask why and if it is to ‘give them a break’ then I wouldn’t be going to the next event.

What does your DH say about the dynamic? It's his parents. Is it also his culture and not yours?

If the rest of the family won't change the current arrangement you can take it or you can leave it. Either stop attending the gatherings, or attend knowing nothing will change. The rota within your own immediate family suggested above is good. (If your children are willing after a discussion, otherwise it's you and DH.)

It sucks and it's sad for these children but ultimately you are limited in what you can do. If you want to be a small comfort, especially for the younger child, it sounds desperately needed.

I think giving that therapist the heads up that the child is suffering neglect would be the way to go and mention the child at home.

Helping out is one thing, them sitting on their arses and you and your children being child minders, absolutely not.

This isn't that.

It's the 6yo picking on and hurting his little brother at any opportunity he gets.
The 4yp wasn't just in a headlock. His throat was being compressed. He was being choked. It took him about 5 minutes to get over it.

I don't think hitting, pinching, pushing your little 4yo brother around all the time is "rough housing". I think it is bullying.

I recognise this dynamic entirely OP. In my family though it's that we also have 2 kids of the same age and basically get left to look after all four. It is infuriating and exhausting, but it's hard to avoid when the kid is about to climb out of a window or punch somebody, and the parents aren't doing anything at all. We now refuse to say in the same house as them to limit the exposure! But no wider solution .

Poor kids. Your BIL and SIL sound like awful, neglectful parents. In your shoes I would be tempted to tell them so. However, I am also sure that if you do, then you'll be the bad guy for "ruining the atmosphere".

It's really a no win scenario, but you can make sure their kids at least sit next to their own parents. I would simply place them there.

You can refuse to help but you can’t do that for everyone else.

Next time I would tell the host to not sit you with the nephews when you get the invite.

It would seem wise to divide and conquer the nephews generally.

It is crap parenting. We used to end up looking after our niblings but at least our DC we the same age range.

Is there a seating plan?
Is MIL happy to sit near them and referee their behaviour or does she want other people to do it? If so, who?
Does your DH agree with you? Will he say something?

Do you think you are maybe exaggerating it all a little? In one short time period you or your relative have had to take a sharp knife out of a child's hand, had to rescue a child from a headlock, had to pull ham out of child's mouth because they were choking on it, had to stop a child scolding themself on hot soup, and had to walk a child down a 'gloomy' and 'scary' corridor to the toilet.

Nothing like this happened in my house! Just one of those incidents alone would be quite remarkable and something we'd talk about for a few weeks after, or bring up next christmas ("do you remember when Polly nearly choked on the Parma ham and aunty Mildred had to tip her upside down and pull the ham out?" Hahaha!!") I wonder if really the incidents you have mentioned are not as big or life threatening or scary as you make out, and if you'd not intervened nothing much would have happened.

My advice is, unless it's really life threatening or a serious accident may ensue, just leave them to it. You don't need to chop food up for other people's children or take them to the toilet. Just stop doing it.

Why interfere in the first place? They're not babies or toddlers, they will eat food unwatched at school. The only thing I'd have interfered with was the fighting and I woukd have told them off for that.

I don't see the problem we all jump in and help with the kids at family gatherings and try to give parents a bit of a break. So what if you have to take one to the loo or cut up some food that's a totally non issue!

This is really really alarming and the parents nonchalance is chilling.

given you know the school are involving a therapist due to their concerns, could you contact / report choking his sibling directly to the school so they are are aware of the issue and can maybe taking further safe guarding steps???

i just feel so sorry for both these kids.
the 6 yo is clearly being failed but honestly i could cry reading about the poor 4 yr old. My heart breaks a bit He is still a baby really 😢

How funny, I was just thinking the opposite. It all sounds pretty run of the mill to me - children get their food cut up, a child needs taking to the toilet, A needs something unsafe whisking out of their grasp, B and C fighting again, D's gagging on something.

“I said in a loud voice when we were going to the table at Christmas that maybe it would be practical for SIL or BIL to be near the kids and MIL said no, they are fine where they are.”

This a MIL problem. She puts them next to you because she knows you’ll keep them in check and it helps her meal run smoothly. I’d refuse and insist the boys are seated next to their parents or you won’t attend.

No I'm not exaggerating.

The opposite if anything.

At one point no-one knew where the 4yo was. The kids were playing hide and seek and no-one was watching where the 4yo was going to hide.
He'd crammed himself into a small space at the top of an open spiral staircase that doesn't have anything to stop a child falling. It's probably about 3 metres down to a tiled floor below. My daughter found him there.

The house we spent Christmas in isn't very child friendly. It belongs to a middle aged gay couple who don't have kids and don't have friends with young kids.

There is also an open fire place that we kept having to move the kids away from (think bouncing and pushing on a chair right next to the fire).

I could bore you with a lot more. We stayed for 48 hours. Plenty of time and meals for 2 young children to need a bit of parenting if they aren't to get hurt. Especially in a non child friendly house.

(The sharp knife was on the table to cut bread. 4yo picked it up because he wanted to cut himself a piece of bread).

I agree you shouldn't need to chop up a 6yo's food. But he hasn't been taught to eat properly and shoves food straight in his mouth.
If someone gives him a sausage for example he will try to cram it all in.

I'm his aunt. I love him. So I explain kindly to him that it's better to cut his sausage up and I help him because he doesn't know how to do it because he's just left to get on with it most of the time.

I wish I was exaggerating.

Lucky you if you have never encountered this sort of thing.

Yes. It breaks my heart too.

Yes I am considering contacting the school therapist or someone as I'm concerned for the safety (and happiness) of the 4yo.

It's very tricky though. This is not my direct family. Most of them would never speak to me again if they found out that I had done something like that. But of course the children's safety and well being is more important.

@Beachcomber you are all enabling this by taking over and unless you all stop (including MIL) it will continue. The older child isn’t a problem because he spent some time with the MIL but because he’s a bully who isn’t parented when at home. Awful. But you can’t change this unless you ALL work together (won’t happen) and with the parents on board (they have different standards so won’t happen either). So step back. Refuse to sit near them or don’t go. One thing your MIL could do is to cut up some of the food to avoid the choking issues but personally it sounds awful and I’d just try to avoid it.

BIL, you are needed here, Cain and Abel are fighting again"
theyll be ok. They're just playing

or "SIL, do you want to come and cut Cain's food up for him"
no, that's ok. You can do that, you're there

Does that mean that your MiL places people? In that case, say you don't want any of your family to be near their children, and suggest that the time has come for the children to be seated near their parents for once.

If she won't go along with it, just tell the children to ask their parents every time they need help.

@KiraNerys1, that little exchange is reasonably easy to sort out. e.g.:

BIL, you are needed here, Cain and Abel are fighting again"
theyll be ok. They're just playing
No, they are not, they are fighting, please sort it out NOW.

or "SIL, do you want to come and cut Cain's food up for him"
no, that's ok. You can do that, you're there
No, I can't, please come and cut it up NOW, he's your child..

It's nice you are such a good aunt. They are fortunate to have you.

I was and remain, just shocked at the number of near death incidents!!! It sounds like if you weren't there a child may have died or seriously injured themself.

But if it is all really genuine and you r not being a bit too OTT, then crikey, I worry what happens when you are not there and would be surprised if the children are not frequently in A&E and/or, or having frequent social care input....

Your sil and bil aren't parenting after them at all by the sounds of their behaviour.

Next time make a point of sitting down at the other end of the table to their kids first. If they are doing something that requires parental intervention, tell them 'x has got y in headlock, you might want to intervene'.