To stop looking after my SIL"s kids at family gatherings?

[Beachcomber]

SIL and BIL have 2 boys, 4yo and 6yo. When they are with family they seem to think that it is some sort of break for them and that naturally their kids will be looked after by.... someone. They don't seem to care who. It's been like this since they were born.

This often falls to my MIL Often DH, me and my young adult kids will do it in order to give MIL a break or let her get on with cooking a meal for 15 people.

I hate it. Not because I mind looking after the kids but because I feel like I'm enabling something that is wrong. The parents always make sure they are sitting at the other end of the table to their kids and then ignore them. My 18 yo DD had to pull a large piece of parma ham out of the 4yp"s mouth at one point as he was starting to choke on it.
I had to intercept both kids being handed a large bowl of soup that had literally just been taken off the boil.
And we spend the entire meal cutting up their food (otherwise they stuff huge bits in their mouths), reminding them to chew, stopping them from eating ridiculous amounts, etc, etc.

We also played a lot with them and took them out for walks, took the little one to the toilet, etc.

The older child is also quite violent towards his little brother. At one point I had to intervene as he had his brother in a headlock and was choking him. It was really bad. The little one was choking and coughing and obviously frightened. I pointed out to their mum what had happened and she ineffectively made noises about Santa taking presents back. Older child laughed in her face and retorted that Santa doesn't exist. Nothing was done to explain to the child how dangerous / unacceptable it is to choke someone.

We will be having another big family meal this week and I've had enough of participating in allowing SIL and BIL to neglect their turbulent and obviously troubled kids.

I don't want to do it anymore. Or certainly not without saying something. Obviously I wouldn't leave a child to choke to make a point. But I think at the very least we should say something. MIL will try to stop me though (she massively enables all this).

I know I will create tension and my PILs will have a go at me but at the next family meal I want to decline for my and my kids to be placed at the table near my nephews and point out that we looked after them all over Christmas so perhaps their parents should parent them.

I know it probably won't make any difference and DH doesn't want me to do it for that reason. AIBU for doing it anyway?

I would do what Createausername1970 suggested on page 1.

Then ignore their response, as in - I’ve told you your child needs some help, ball is in your court- or excuse yourself and pop to the loo/check on something away from the table.

Also, try to sit at the table before everyone else, maybe you and 1 DC, the other DC sits next to DH.

I think you should insist the two children be seated away from each other, for a start. If MIL insists they are “fine where they are” I’d just say no, you are beside them and would rather not have to play referee. Seat one elsewhere for a little peace for the little one.

You don't see the problem as you either aren't reading the OPs posts or for some reason you dont understand them

This clearly isn't a case of normal family pitching in, you should be thankful your family isn't dysfunctional like this one is.

I can only suggest speaking up every time OP and calling the SIL and BIL out when they absolve their parental responsibilities and don't step in

Honestly, I just ignore other people's kids. I obviously look after my own, make sure they are behaving themselves, being polite and enjoying whatever we're attending, but other people's kids I don't do anything with beyond hello and polite conversation.

OP - over the years, I have posted not dissimilar threads about SIL and (now ex) BIL and their DC. So I 100% get it. There's the intellectual "just don't do it" mindset, and the reality of how hard it is to just not do it.

You say that your BIL is a sexist, wanker - I wonder if he's also abusive? In our case, exBIL was emotionally abusive and highly controlling (ironically, he didn't even have the benefit of earning well to "justify" that abuse but the only positive is that I think that this sort of abuse is harder to spot when the abuser can claim "I just work really hard so...." and it meant that we all saw through him a bit sooner) and it absolutely made SIL a worse parent. Sadly, he's now an ex but SIL's parenting has not significantly improved, exacerbated by what we suspect is ND in at least one child and, of course, the trauma they are all living with as a result of the long-term abuse, a difficult and acrimonious split, and the ongoing trauma that exBIL brings to their lives.

I also considered contacting the school at various points. LIke you, I knew that if I did it would cause absolute chaos if it ever came out. I even considered trying to do it anonomously. There is a part of me that regrets that I did not.

The problem is that if the parenting is poor, they do not want to acknowledge that and probably can't. It will only get worse. One of our nephews is now really struggling and SIL is struggling too - but it's difficult because I am deeply sympathetic but also frustrated because at least some of these problems are the result of her own actions (or, more accurately, lack of action).

It does sounds like an awful situation. Completely agree that the school should be informed of concerns with the 4 year old, and the escalating behaviour of the older child. It sounds like the parents need more help, but help to parent effectively rather than someone else taking on the responsibility.
Me ex SIL was very much like this, her child is a tearaway and has been from day 1, with also very little in the way of parenting. Every time she visited exMIL she would almost 'forget' her child existed and then be furious withe everyone for not watching when he came in hurt or dirty. I did have it out with her in the end, but only when she asked why my children aren't getting hurt or covered in dirt - that's because I am watching them!! Don't know what she's like now because I don't get involved

It sounds like you are over-anxious about them. 4 and 6 yos don't need anyone to cut up their food, taken to the toilet or be reminded to chew. Do you think someone cuts up their food at school? Brothers also sometimes fight. I would let them get on with it unless they are actually at serious risk of harm. If it's serious, tell SIL and BIL.

Just say "please supervise your children" repeat repeat

I would split the boys up so one with each parent. Make place cards and comment about how they didn’t get a chance to sit together last time.

These three incidents are something which could have caused death. Two choking incidents and a potential 3m fall onto tiles. I think you or your DH need to say something.

Why on earth should op have sole responsibility of keeping them alive? Choking burning etc it's awful what stress.
Op do it.

Husband and I used to find large family gatherings shattering as the houses weren't child proof and we couldn't take our eyes off them for a minute.
Our older nieces and nephews were kind to our children but absolutely no minding them went on.
Now ours are grown and our nieces and nephews have tots.
I sit down and really enjoy family gatherings.
I let them crack on with mixed results.
One niece allows her feral children run riot.
Her husband does his best.
She is Headmistress of a prominent school and believes in gently parenting....hence they are lovely but quite feral.

Steer them back toward the parents at every opportunity. I'm not saying don't interact -play games, chat etc, but any "need" like disagreement solving or food management, say 'go and speak to mum/dad' or call the parents over and walk off immediately. Just stop. My two are now an adult and late teen. I've done my younger child parenting already, and while I'm more than happy to lend a hand occasionally, I'm not being a bloody free childminding service.

Good advice to sit your teens between you and dh then turn your back on your nephew and speak to your teens.
I too would ignore your nephews. Just don’t engage if it gets in your nerves.
Im not talking about them asking for help etc but if they are fighting leave them too it.
Walk away, talk to other relatives.

I'm torn - dh's sisters always got very involved with our kids - we didn't ask them to - there was no need Unlike their kids ours were not high-maintenance, were well-behaved, happy to entertain themselves, got along well with each other, Sils could never let their kids free range in any way, everything had to have adult involvement - it annoyed our kids but we said nothing, we thought they were coming from a good place. Even when we felt our kids were old enough to be dropped off at the cinema (13 years old) they insisted on going along (our kids weren't very happy with the intrusion either). Eventually, the whole thing blew up and we were accused of taking advantage of them - expecting them to look after our kids (at the cinema), it really pissed me off, our kids did not need their supervision. It destroyed any real relationship we had with them, we thought they had given their time willingly otherwise we'd have told them there was no need but it turns out there was a mass of resentment building up - I wish they'd have left our kids alone, they were absolutely fine without them.

I think your concerns are valid. Yes family can help out but if you aren't enjoying yourself and it's stressful for you and your family then something needs to change as it's clearly more than a bit of helping out. Perhaps you and your family should say actually we are trying to eat ourselves so could you come help your DC and distance yourselves a bit. Not saying miss family gathering entirely but perhaps leave early/come a bit later etc. There's helping and then there's parents not parenting at all which isn't ok for me. Sounds like the parents do have a lot of support which is wonderful so I don't think the case of giving them a break applies here, sounds CF behaviour on their part tbh.

I have two very little DC too and they are always on my radar. I never just assume someone else should be helping them. I check and if a family member is happy to have them/help them then it's fine but even then I keep a close eye in case a situation unfolds. No one knows your children like you. And if my child is choking/has an accident I wouldn't want to be sat far away from them! In our circle it is very much the norm for people to shuffle around the table to ensure parents are sat with their children unless someone offers to have them.

I'm guessing bil n sil see this as their respite time. My sil n bil are similar,I sometimes help mil but not everytime I figure it's mils circus

For the sake of the 4 yo, could you contact the school? Not sure about the rest of it.

Even when we felt our kids were old enough to be dropped off at the cinema (13 years old) they insisted on going along (our kids weren't very happy with the intrusion either).

How bizarre. They went to the cinema to be there when you had dropped your own kids off? How did they know the times? Why would they do that? I wouldn’t have told them anything!

Your MIL could tell them multiple times, but they won't. So it means that she either leaves her GC in the thick of abuse and neglect, or she limits, whenever she can. The eldest is showing signs of emotional trauma. You could add to the info the school has. If you were in the UK, advice would be easy, but without knowing, family support where you are, it's difficult. Personally, I'd give care when I was around, but if it's too much for you, then just do the safety stuff. There's no reason why your DH can't get a grip of the oldest and explain the dangers of choking. Just have dome sympathy for MIL and the difficult position she is in.

@Beachcomber tell your mil that the kids need to be placed beside their parents if it is up to the host to place them!!! If she doesnt do that then ask the people next to the parents to swap with the kids!! i wouldnt be looking after someone else's kids either!! if you are hosting then it is up to you to seat dil and her hubby with their kids!! dont let mil dictate to you!

We also played a lot with them and took them out for walks

Hmmm, that’s presumably your choice though. I wouldn’t have volunteered to take two arguing kids for walks when their parents couldn’t be arsed to.

Who was your mother in law seating next to the kids, @Beachcomber , when you said to put them with their parents and she refused? If it was next to her, that’s her choice and her house and fine. Was it that she’s specifically putting them next to you though?

When my 2 were young teens, every time we had a family gathering, they were expected to entertain/look after their much younger cousins; they were relentless in demanding their full attention. One time DD said to me that she didn't mind playing with them occasionally, but didn't want to do it all the time. I told her it was perfectly OK to tell them they would have to wait, or say not now, as they weren't there to babysit.
As soon as we got out of the car after arriving, one of the cousins was all over DD demanding she play, DD said not at the moment, cousin went in to full tantrum mode and SiL had to deal with it.
SiL then had a go at me for DD telling her DC to wait, I reminded her my children were not unpaid baby sitters for hers.
I think she suddenly realised she had been unreasonable, and the dynamic changed.

Thank you for this.

Yes I think BIL is a bully at best and probably abusive.
I don't think he is physically abusive but he bullies his children and tries to bully mine.
I imagine that he bullies his wife too.

That's exactly it.

MIL is doing the best she can to help the children because she loves them. And she knows that the situation is not good. But none of us are allowed to say it out loud. I guess because it's too painful and there isn't a lot that can be done other than us being nice to the children when we see them and trying to encourage them to not behave ferally. 😦