To stop looking after my SIL"s kids at family gatherings?

[Beachcomber]

SIL and BIL have 2 boys, 4yo and 6yo. When they are with family they seem to think that it is some sort of break for them and that naturally their kids will be looked after by.... someone. They don't seem to care who. It's been like this since they were born.

This often falls to my MIL Often DH, me and my young adult kids will do it in order to give MIL a break or let her get on with cooking a meal for 15 people.

I hate it. Not because I mind looking after the kids but because I feel like I'm enabling something that is wrong. The parents always make sure they are sitting at the other end of the table to their kids and then ignore them. My 18 yo DD had to pull a large piece of parma ham out of the 4yp"s mouth at one point as he was starting to choke on it.
I had to intercept both kids being handed a large bowl of soup that had literally just been taken off the boil.
And we spend the entire meal cutting up their food (otherwise they stuff huge bits in their mouths), reminding them to chew, stopping them from eating ridiculous amounts, etc, etc.

We also played a lot with them and took them out for walks, took the little one to the toilet, etc.

The older child is also quite violent towards his little brother. At one point I had to intervene as he had his brother in a headlock and was choking him. It was really bad. The little one was choking and coughing and obviously frightened. I pointed out to their mum what had happened and she ineffectively made noises about Santa taking presents back. Older child laughed in her face and retorted that Santa doesn't exist. Nothing was done to explain to the child how dangerous / unacceptable it is to choke someone.

We will be having another big family meal this week and I've had enough of participating in allowing SIL and BIL to neglect their turbulent and obviously troubled kids.

I don't want to do it anymore. Or certainly not without saying something. Obviously I wouldn't leave a child to choke to make a point. But I think at the very least we should say something. MIL will try to stop me though (she massively enables all this).

I know I will create tension and my PILs will have a go at me but at the next family meal I want to decline for my and my kids to be placed at the table near my nephews and point out that we looked after them all over Christmas so perhaps their parents should parent them.

I know it probably won't make any difference and DH doesn't want me to do it for that reason. AIBU for doing it anyway?

It wasn't her house. It was her brother's. He's very chilled out and let's her get on with things. She is the head of the family.
She did sit near the kids but with a buffer of me, my (grown up) kids and my DH. Because she's 75 and does a lot already for the family and she was busy with a meal that she was in charge of.

Sils didn't think their kids could be trusted to be independent so they went everywhere with them - we were on a different pathway - trusting our kids to grow up gently, giving them the freedom to go it alone - sil tagged along on every outing - even shopping in town for example. Our kids were irked by it but accepted that their aunties were a bit overprotective.
And then we got attacked for not going as well and making the sil feel she was responsible for our kids. She was overstepping - no one asked her to look after our kids - she wanted us to go to the cinema - we wanted to go for a coffee down the road from the cinema instead - all hell broke lose and things haven't been the same because we wouldn't start fusing over our kids as she does with hers - she still treats her adult children like they are 5 years old- but that's her choice, we wouldn't tell her how to parent and we don't expect her to tell us how to parent - we know our kids and we trusted them.

Right, so she wasn’t just palming them off on you but was helping with them herself-that’s something.

Why does she not go with the idea of putting the kids with their parents though? Does she genuinely think the parents need a break or is she worried that they are going to get cross with the kids and cause a row?

You should definitely report this - anonymously - to social services (or whatever they are called in your country)

Is really interesting because I have an exact copy situation of everything you have put. Including never sitting with their kids at meals and the enormous amount of childcare from relatives. I don’t agree with it and I don’t enable it. If my kids are playing with nephews fine, but if they don’t want to any more or if there is bad behaviour or a toilet need, I encourage them to bring the kids to the parents every time. They now say if the child is crying…. You will want your mum, where is mum etc etc.

My SIL and BIL are amazing at avoiding parenting their kids. I am genuinely impressed at how they manage to effortlessly shirk any responsibility and how guiltlessly they enable MIL and other family members to rally round. They don’t even bother to say ‘it takes a village…’ probably because that would involve thinking about child raising.

MIL does sort of palm the kids off to us a bit. But only because she does an enormous amount already.
I totally get why she does it.

I think it's a pity though that when I hand her a massive hint like "ooh SIL and BIL must want to be next to their small children who need help and parenting at the table" that she doesn't jump on it.

She knows that if the children are next to their parents that they will still ignore them and I think she finds the cramming in of food, etc pretty unbearable (as do we all).

And, yes, she does try to protect the children from their dad. His role seems to be limited to 2 things. Either stressing the children out by trying to show off that they know their 12 times table or something similar (they don't cos they are too young) or being overbearing and bullying them. 😔

Is the bully BIL your MIL’s son?? Because this would make a lot of sense. She does so much to cover for her son’s nasty streak.

Yes. I know what you mean.

There is something quite impressive about the level of cheeky fuckery and gall. And the total lack of guilt.

They let my PIL run themselves ragged and then still moan cos they don't like the dessert that has been made (not by them god forbid).

They also don't say "it takes a village".

Because they are entitled and lazy and self absorbed and don't appreciate what everyone is doing for their poor kids.

No. SIL is her daughter.

BIL is her son in law.

I think she is afraid that she will see less of the kids and her daughter if she pisses him off.

Just say

‘ask your mum’

Or ‘ask your daddy I’m eating darling’

‘im just doing this ask your dad’

these children are well beyond saving from their lazy parents - just stop enabling it all

you relax and sit back - tell your kids the same -

I would start looking into signposts for emotionally controlling and abusive relationships. "Bully" is a bit of a soft term. Some examples you might have experienced but not necessarily noticed but that are common:

Him putting a downer on family occassions and/or blaming her - they had a fight, or he implies she did or said something silly/wrong/mean creating the mood etc.

Does she avoid spending time with the rest of the family without him? Or if she is without him, is there often some crisis or drama that makes her distracted/annoying?

Does she have strong friendships separate to him? Are you aware of her spending time away from him for her own benefit?

Abandoning the older child at the time of the birth of the youngest COULD be because she's selfish. But it does also make me think it's because she felt she couldn't look after a baby, her DH and the toddler....

What are the finances like? If he's a high earner, does it feel like she needs permission to spend "his money". If he's a low earner, does it feel like she has to compensate? if she gets something nice, does she ever express concern regarding how he will react and/or immediately talk about sharing it with him? eg you buy her a ridiculous large box of chocolates and it's instantly, "ooh, we can hvae these together" or whatever?

I'm assuming that she is doing all the cooking, cleaning etc based on your earlier posts. Have you ever witnessed her being berated for doing this badly or not to his standard? Even just on a "joking" level?

Does he make comments or suggestions about things she (or the DC) should do which challenged, even lightly, he pushes back on? Examples from SIL and BIL include i) him believing he had every right to decide on how she would give birth, and pushing back with the entitled, "but its my baby too" when it was pointed out that it's her body ii) her wanting to go to extra gym classes and him having strong opinions that she didn't need it/it's unnecessary iii) her working towards a promotion - strong opinions that she was working too much, not spending enough time with the family iv) her expressing concerns about somethign to do with their DC and him being patronising and trying to get the rest of us on side.

My sil is epic for giving us a break and we try to do the same with my other sil who has younger kids. If it bugs you that much then say to them their kids are messing or whatever but I can tell you it’s probably such a relief and fun time for them and a lovely Christmas present!!!!! (Oh and good for your young adult kids!)

I think it's a pity though that when I hand her a massive hint like "ooh SIL and BIL must want to be next to their small children who need help and parenting at the table" that she doesn't jump on it.

Yes, absolutely-you’d think she’d 100% back you up there!

Yeah.

It's good for my 18 and 21 year old to spend nice times with their young cousins. And they enjoy it mostly and are very kind and sweet to them.

And I suppose although it's painful and distressing to see their cousins be neglected, ignored and bullied by their parents there is probably a life lesson in that too. Shame it's at the expense of a 6yp and a 4yo though.

I know!

I don't get it.

Feel like MIL is being bullied by them in a way. Them "having a break" has become an excuse for really bad behaviour.

But she is also kind of her own worst enemy in a way and then ropes us in when she's had enough / got too much to do.

Gah! It's bloody awful. Can't bring myself to not do stuff with / for the kids though. They need it and they deserve it.

And I suppose although it's painful and distressing to see their cousins be neglected, ignored and bullied by their parents there is probably a life lesson in that too. Shame it's at the expense of a 6yp and a 4yo though.

There’s no need to be like that, I’m not suggesting that sort of a life lesson, I’m saying young adults can help out/ play with young kids but obviously don’t have to. Are they bullied by their parents op? At family get togethers you can say kids are ignored and neglected if you want to use that terminology eg you’re out chatting to adults or kid relatives your kids are messing in the other room. The chaos of the get together may mean it happens, obviously it’s not ideal. Same with the soup eg, maybe it was taken off and given to a child without thinking- awful but maybe a once off. Only you and them know how bad it is but definitely address it

The parents are not interested in their own kids. Full stop. Useless to even discuss unless SS have to be involved. The last one with a pinch of salt.

Soup was being served to everyone at the table. It was boiling hot.

In that situation (you are sitting opposite the boiling pot of soup) would you not be checking out what was being handed down to your 4yo child? And probably your 6yo too?

It probably seems odd and petty of me to be going on about it but I was a bit at the end of my tether at that point.

I've seen it happen before. The kids biting into something really hot and getting a fright and their parents either not noticing or telling them off for not being careful. It's unnecessary and unkind.

And could be dangerous. If the child had spilt the soup on his hand or in his lap it probably would have been painful and possibly a minor burn.

Who does that to their kids?

Yeah this happens to me and dh at family gatherings.
All the kids come into our room and I entertain them whilst DH looks after our ds if he doesn't want to play.
Yesterday was the final straw though. They all come in, eat dinner then we put ds to bed. Kids go back with my parents and my siblings and wives have a good old catch up and a family photo. Didn't bother knocking to see if we wanted to take part or message asking if we had finished putting ds to bed.
Next boxing day we are going to a hotel and coming back the day after.

And then you say, no.

The 6 year-old is copying his dad's behaviour, isn't he? His dad intimidates him, and the kid takes it out on his younger sibling.

Yes. We can say no. And sometimes do but no doubt not enough.

As someone said above all we can do is be in control of our own behaviour.

Thanks for the input everyone. It's given me things to think about and a bit of perspective.

I dunno, I wouldn't mind any of those things. You do sound quite dramatic. several times you mentioned they were choking or nearly choking. I wouldn't think twice about helping a small child/relative out when cutting up their food or taking to the toilet. I wouldn't see it as a big deal. You mention the bowl of soup, surely whoever was handing them the bowl should have maybe had more sense.

Report them to whatever equivilent of Social Services you have, and stop going to family gatherings. Your husband is as useless as your BIL not wanting to rock the boat by making his sister and BIL parent their children and expecting his wife and kids do it instead.

Just because it's cultural doesn't mean it shouldn't change. Your kids need someone to stand up for them so they don't become the next generation's you for feral children.

I wouldn't even go there , something serious will happen and you'll be held accountable , that's serious. Bail out .