Argument and I feel like I'm going mad

[Aliceisagooddog]

Please tell me who is being unreasonable in this scenario. Walking with DH, he is holding DSs (6) hand. DS keeps tripping up and eventually falls down. DH gets angry and shouts at DS. I catch up and say that DS doesn't normally trip like this with me ( he used to when younger). DH explodes and says 'are you saying it's my fault'? Very angry. When I try and explain that I'm just stating a fact, not blaming anyone he accuses me of gaslighting ( a favourite phrase of his). I was gobsmacked. Was I wrong in what I said?

OP, it feels like you are really reluctant to hear what many people are saying to you.

There is nothing wrong with the responses that would necessitate moving the thread.

There is, however, something useful you could learn about your behaviour that would help your relationship with your DH- if you are willing to read the responses with curiosity and openness.

I agree with others. Your two examples both imply that you jump to criticise or control your DH. And then you deny that that is what you are doing. Perhaps you even believe that is not what you are doing, but surely, you can very reasonably imagine how:

1. Saying your DS never trips with you implies you think your DH is the cause of the tripping, therefore you are critiquing him. (Which might be justified, but then don't deny it)
2. That repeatedly, loudly calling someone's name in public, to demand attention when they are doing nothing wrong (just not what you want) is controlling and pretty aggressive?

It's really difficult to tell what's going on here with what info we have. Appreciate you don't want it to be outing. I'd hate someone to say to me ' he doesn't do that with me '. But equally, if hes having a tantrum dragging your son about, I'd be having issues with that mindset. Unless he has a good excuse ( having a bad day).

When you see him acting like that incident with DS, it's best to just confront it honestly and gently - ' what's going on? Why are you getting so annoyed with DS? What's going on. Is something up?' No other comment, just ask honestly.

If you communicate like this and he still says you're gaslighting him then he's the problem.

To take your original statement that When I try and explain that I'm just stating a fact, not blaming anyone he accuses me of gaslighting, I have to ask if it was that you're "just stating a fact", then why were you stating any facts, why were you stating that particular fact, why do you think stating a fact was helpful, and what did you hope to get back from it?

I am all for not second-guessing people, and I always attempt to take things at face-value, however, there was a reason why you stated this fact, and if it wasn't to make out it was your husband's fault then I'm clueless as to what it was for.

If it was to state a fact for facts-stating sake, you could have said "It's dark" or "My name is Aliceisagooddog" or "Well that's one for Mumsnet tonight", or anything else for that matter. But you didn't, you stated that the child never falls over with you, then came on here when your husband took the hump.

FWIW, what you said is like nails down a black-board to me, because I grew up in a home where this was a constant expression to absolutely anything I had done or attempted to do, or attempted to use, that had either gone tits-up or was unsuccessful.

Sometimes the inference was that I had caused the problem. Sometimes the inference was that there wasn't a problem and it was me being thick. I never realised how deeply I was affected by this rudeness until one day as an adult at work (I would have been about 21) I mentioned to a colleague that I couldn't get any hot water from the tap in the kitchenettte. Straight away my arsehole of a manager piped up "well it was alright when I used it", and to say a red mist descended was an understatement - I wanted to slap him round the face.

He could have just explained that the water heater on the wall was a storage type and not an instantaneous, and that he'd possibly used all the hot water, but no, he had to make the point that there was nothing wrong and I was a thick bas*ard.

So, again, I ask you, what you hoping to achieve from stating your fact?

No, the blame seems accurate. Making a young child walk faster than they’re comfortably able to, in the dark and wet, isn’t kind. He tripped and hurt himself, and all you can think about is the grown man? Do you generally have any compassion for children?

You don’t drag kids about when having a ‘tantrum’, dragging anyone around is physical abuse. Especially when it results in an injury!

Surely you just meet in the foyer, trying to stop in a crowd of people all trying to get out with a child in tow is not a good idea, that's how people get crushed.

I cant believe you are being told yabu...

DS keeps tripping up and eventually falls down. DH gets angry and shouts at DS.

This is not an appropriate response and is NOT okay

However my response to are you saying its my fault would be
"Do you think its your fault? And do you rhink its appropriate to yell at a child who had an accident and hurt themselves?"
Id also be quite happy to happy it out with him

He sounds like a twat.

But if he never trips with her, then there’s a strong likelihood that his inappropriate pace for a child caused the accident. Since when did critiquing someone become control?

If your husband regularly burned the toast, wouldn’t you tell him that it’s not the toaster, it’s the way he’s doing it that’s wrong?

If your husband scolded your child with the bath water and blamed the central heating, wouldn’t you explain that it’s never happened to you so it’s likely the setting?

Critiquing people is how we recognise error (we ALL make errors, intentionally and otherwise) and it’s perfectly fine to point them out when they result in injury, especially of a child.

It would be complicit and ethically wrong to allow a father to continually walk too fast holding their young child’s hand, resulting in them tripping and hurting themselves. It’s abusive. As adults, when walking with children and holding hands, we must adjust our pace so the child can walk and maintain the pace safely. It’s basic decency.

OP knows her family set up and it’s sounding like husband is a class a twat. If he were controlled by OP, I doubt he’d be yelling at the kid after the fall. He sounds like a bully and OP needs the strength to put her child first, not online posters backing up the dad who seems to think it’s ok to cause injury and scream at his family.

The theatre example you're definitely wrong. Why wouldn't you meet outside or j in the foyer instinctively? No one needs shouting at in public to do that.

Why couldn't the child walk between them holding a hand each if the conditions were treacherous and the child was tripping over? Or if the mum was so much better walking with the child why wasn't she walking with them? Was DH too tall to hold hands comfortably causing child to stumble? Whatever, no need for any fact stating (blame).

Why would someone just walk off without checking if the rest of their family is able to follow?

he clearly heard her but didn’t want to acknowledge it (even with a glance back) so instead ignored her then had a go at her for calling after.

OP - please don’t take what these posters are saying, mumsnet posters love to blame the OP as a form of being contrary and having one up. It’s obvious that your husbands communication is off and he doesn’t amend his behaviour for the people around him. He does whatever he wants and when he’s called out, he gets angry. That’s not normal or kind and you don’t have to put up with it.

Is he good to your kids? Does he treat them with respect and kindness usually?

Because the child is 6 and the parent was in control. He clearly didn’t want to wait for his wife so stormed ahead with his young son in tow who couldn’t keep the pace.

The HUSBAND should have slowed down. Will you normally do anything to avoid seeing fault in a man’s actions? Or just this one so you can have a go at OP?

The husband is an adult, he should have ensured the safety of his child, no dragging him at a fast pace causing him to trip and fall. He, and you, it seems have no compassion for a young child.

Leaving an event like a theatre isn't walking off. You cause more issues trying to turn back.

Granted he probably should have turned and looked but really the repeated shouting isn't needed. It implies some kind of crisis or emergency where there is none.

He might be an utter twat, but the theatre behaviour isn't a good example of his twat behaviour.

The theatre thing is ridiculous. It’s almost impossible to stay together when leaving a crowded theatre. So long as each kid is with an adult it doesn’t matter - just meet in the foyer or outside. He was probably embarrassed by you making a scene over nothing.

And the tripping thing definitely sounds like you were accusing him of it being his fault.

You sound a bit of a pita tbh, unless there’s lots of things you’re not telling us.

Sounds like this information is needed to fully evaluate the situation.

It's so annoying when people use the term gaslighting for things that are nothing like gaslighting. 🤦‍♀️ What's his obsession with accusing you of it?

@Aliceisagooddog YABU.

You may not realise but you are treating your DH like a child and I would hate that too. You're being patronising and passive-aggressive in what you say.

Telling your DH he never trips when he walks with you is saying your DH made him fall.

Shouting at him to wait at the theatre is silly. Just find each other outside. He had a phone. You should have just said "see you outside". You're an adult so he shouldn't have to wait.

I think you both have issues:

Your husband shouldn’t have shouted at your DS for tripping over, that’s nasty.
If DS was repeatedly tripping then either your DH was walking too fast or DS was tired.

Saying ‘he doesn’t do that with me’ IS saying it’s your husband’s fault in an indirect way. it would annoy me too.
I think you could be more direct with your communication then there is no chance of being misunderstanding or being accused of gaslighting. A better thing to say would be ‘DH could you slow down, it’s slippy and DS is tripping’. Or ‘I can see DS is getting tired, shall we both hold his hand’.
(and then if your DH got annoyed at you for saying that the he definitely does have issues and I would be questioning the relationship).

The theatre incident - I think it’s fine for him to wait in the foyer or outside, I don’t know why you were shouting to get him to wait. I wouldn’t shout like that in a theatre. He was probably embarrassed.
He could have waited in the foyer and had a chat to DS about the show until you came down. Also I don’t think it’s great he was staring at his phone tbh, but there may have been a reason.

This.

You don't need to control everything.

I feel v sorry for your little DS 😥

Next time he's being a shitty parent, tell him directly. And if he doesn't like it, tell him to go fuck himself. Horrible man.

I think you were criticising your DH (which is justified as it sounds like he was walking too fast causing your DC to trip) but the unreasonable bit is that you're not owning the criticism by pretending it's a fact.

@Slidingdowntherainbow you seem very invested in defending the OP.

To reply to your challenge to my points. I agree that if the dad is walking in an unreasonable way (and even more if he is raising his voice at the boy tripping) then it makes sense to criticise him (I even say this in my earlier post and multiple others have confirmed that in this aspect, the man is at fault). The problem in this example is to do so in such a passive aggressive way (rather than eg say directly "I think you are walking too fast for him" or "don't shout- that's not fair on him".... ) and then deny that you ARE criticising. I can understand why that feels like gaslighting to the husband.

The theatre example is revealing. Yes, the dad walking off suggests he may be less socially minded/a bit oblivious. But he took a child with him. It's not like he walked off leaving OP struggling with all the bags/coats/children.... he was doing his bit... and getting out of a theatre can be madness, and frankly big groups just trying to stay together causes more traffic jams. So what he was doing, at worst, was mildly irritating but also practical. The OP's reaction - of shouting after him multiple times and apparently worrying about losing each other is ridiculous, over dramatic. Persistently shouting shows real controlling instincts, because you are basically not giving the other person any option but to do things your way. It's also bloody annoying for all the other people walking past you.

If you've spent any time on Mumsnet, you will know that the tendency is to be massively critical towards the man in most scenarios.... but based on the information given by the OP, it really does sound like she could benefit from thinking about herself.

The fact that she has responded so unreflectively and rigidly to all the people who are trying to give her feedback also reinforces the impression that at least some of the problem lies with her.

Agree to firmly disagree.

I don't need background information to work out that your DH is an impatient and angry man. He was obviously dragging your DS too fast which is why he fell.

Is he always like this or only in certain situations? Is he generally a kind dad to your DS or are his expectations of a 6 year old too high?