AIBU in thinking this could spread rapidly to other schools? Parents have to come into school to change NT DCs if they soil themselves.

[CwmYoy]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/schools-tell-parents-if-your-34349942

It's been a long time coming but I can see it will spread now there are fewer TAs.

As long as SEN needs are taken into account I think it's a good idea.

But toilet training some children is harder and means a lot of accidents at the beginning. It is harder than simply putting a child in nappies.

There's a thread going now where a child is just refusing to go (for hours) and crying in distress unless they can use a nappy.

What do you do then?

We had this with our DD2 who has bowel issues meaning gets very constipated and it's painful when she goes, but less painful to go in a nappy as (sorry tmi) it slows it down coming out. So we put a nappy over the potty so it did same thing and she felt like she was going in a nappy, but still sitting on a potty, and gradually built up from there. There were still lots if tears and some bribery/rewards involved, but we got there in the end. For some children it is easier to keep them in nappies rather than have the battle, but as parents we sometimes have to take the hard path in the best interests of the child.

Neglect to have to wait 5 minutes for Mum to come round? Hardly.

But it wouldn’t be five minutes would it. Even if the parent lived next door to the school it would still be more than 5 minutes by the time the school had asked someone to make the call, pulled up the records, made the call and then the parent get ready to leave (including getting things together to change them into!)

In the real world even with the best will in the world you would be talking 20 minutes or more sat in soiled or wet clothes. How is that dignified for the child?

That is appaling. For it to be a common incidence like you describe I wonder if there was an issue like excessive drinking going on. Previous generations generally didn't have bottles of water to drink all day.

As I said before if there is no spare adult available the child is given clean clothes and sorts himself out.

Not much else you can do. You can't declare a playtime and force the teacher in the classroom next door to abandon lessons and supervise 59 children.

It could happen several times a day.

I totally understand, but if it is happening regularly, where does the responsibility lay. What does the school then dress the child in? Surely the parent would need to come with a change of clothes.

Schools have a supply of spares.

Some children have regular accidents for whatever reason. It’s not ideal but a child shouldn’t be shamed for it or made to feel like a burden. You do what’s right for the child which is helping them get changed into fresh clothing as quickly (and discreetly) as possible.

"Neglect to have to wait 5 minutes for Mum to come round? Hardly."

My sahm lived 5 mins walk from my primary school but it would have taken her a lot longer than that to get there.eg be out shopping or seeing to a younger sibling.

Which really brings us back to the original point. If the accidents are a regular occurence, is the child ready for a school environment. If he or she was capable of changing themself and had spare clothes from home, then fair enough. But if they haven't that ability perhaps deferring for a year until they are may be better.

Wait til starts school and let them cry there? Until you collect and let them home to poop in a nappy …. til Uni.

And how long do you defer for? How many years education does a child need to miss and how is that fair on the child?

That’s if the parent even gets the call. I had a voicemail that so so had an accident and could I come into school. I didn’t see until I finished work(not allowed my phone on me and the school does have my work for number where someone can get me). Not just that, but it wasn’t even my kid that had the accident!

No idea if the right parent ever got the message.

Surely by six years old unless there was a medical reason, a child should be able to change themself. If not a care plan should be put in place with associated funding.

I don’t know where this imaginary extra funding a few people have mentioned comes from!

Unless a child qualifies for an EHCP (and by some miracle gets one that is actually fully funded) there is a no extra money. There isn’t a magical money tree when someone has something diagnosed!

@Bloonket maybe you can pop on that thread and tell a very concerned, stressed ,upset and trying parent that.

I don’t know where this imaginary extra funding a few people have mentioned comes from!

Or the staff to do it, considering parents should always be 5 minutes away from their kid's school.

So who in this instance is responsible for picking up the slack? Should the school, the staff and the other pupils education suffer. Or should the parent of the child be available and contactable at short notice to deal with it.

Whoever can change the child in the most dignified way as soon as possible should do it. So the school staff.

I work in a school. I get how tough it is but it’s now part of the job.

So when schools are allegedly so underfunded that staffing is below what is needed. The over-stretched staff with other children needing their attention in terms of their education, should leave them to attend to one child. Not reasonable at all if it is a regular occurence.

It is part of a primary school teachers job to provide care and keep children safe. Or would you be happy with your child choking at school and teachers standing back because they're 'not trained' or leaving a child covered in sick, having a fit, getting attacked by another DC, or allow your DC to step into a busy road on a school trip because 'they are just there to teach'. If this really wasn't part of a schools job, parents would have to attend school with their children to keep them safe. I've changed my whole life around in order to be close by to the school at all times for my DC with a genuine need for me to be on hand. It is bollocks when people claim you can just drop everything and get to your child, the world isn't set up like this. Parents are expected to work. It definitely takes me more than five minutes to take the call, inform my manager I need to pop across to school, coat and shoes on and I live just across the road.

Providing first aid or breaking up a fight is totally different from dealing with repeated soiling by the same children.

But lets use your examples there as a point of note, Use this following example:

If while the teacher is cleaning my child, your child had a fit or was getting hit by another pupil. Would you think that acceptable?

Children, boys especially will start to get up to mischief when the teacher is out of the class. They are at higher risk of eg falling off a desk and injuring themselves, because lets face it us boys are a bit stupid when young.

You then have the added pressure of the teacher settling that class back down before lessons can resume. So that one soiled child could well easily reduce learning time by an hour.

3 and 4 year olds will have accidents from time to time. That is normal. So push the government to provide adequate funding for schools to provide proper care for children, rather than normalising child neglect in schools.

@AVeryCovidChristmas But 3 and 4 year olds have always had accidents. There have not been the current issues.