AIBU in thinking this could spread rapidly to other schools? Parents have to come into school to change NT DCs if they soil themselves.

[CwmYoy]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/schools-tell-parents-if-your-34349942

It's been a long time coming but I can see it will spread now there are fewer TAs.

As long as SEN needs are taken into account I think it's a good idea.

I think it is wrong. DM was a primary teacher and there is no way she would have done this and nor would I for that matter. Welfare would have called the dps or the dc would have gone to medical room

What about the other 29 dc

A lot of them may also have young children of their own.
I want to know how teachers and TAs are expected to leave their classes to go to their own children's schools.

@Gogogoquietly
There will always be an adult who can be 'made' available. I'm not talking about whether or not it's convenient. I'm not talking about whether or not it's disruptive. If there is literally zero capacity and no protocols for an adult to be mobilised for any incidences outside the norm, then the school cannot operate safely and can't be open.

That just isn't true. I have taught in rural schools where there is no spare adult. Teaching head and part time secretary. They are still open.

Welfare would have called the dps or the dc would have gone to medical room

The problem now is there is no ‘welfare’ and often no ‘medical room’ even if there is, there’s nobody to staff it.

It all boils down to money really. Parents have to both work to pay the mortgage meaning sometimes potty training slips through the net. Those at preschool are generally ok, they are good at training, but we are finding increasing numbers of unwilling grandparents doing childcare-they don’t want to do it but are backed into a corner as they know their adult offspring can’t afford to pay for childcare, but really don’t want to do the toilet training. Then it’s gone on and is all a bit embarrassing, so nobody mentions it to the school and they have a huge problem on their hands in September. The parents work full time and don’t want to come to meetings/collection/pick up the phone to talk about it and the (often wet) child is dragged from wraparound care to school and back again without it being properly addressed.

School don’t have the resources or funding to deal with this plus being responsible for the academic side of schooling.

Take away the pressures of things like phonics tests and Ofsted and maybe they can-at the moment they are being squeezed into too many ways. ‘Inclusion’ can’t just be piling on more pupils with additional needs onto the plate of a solitary teacher, whilst telling her she still has to get x% through the phonics test, still have to have her learning objectives stuck in and she has a subject Deep dive for a bloody mocksted.

Takes us 2 hours a day to deal with the morning and afternoon nappy changes, add on to that the amount of toilet accidents we are also changing - 1 child has 3+ daily, another 1 or 2, a third has at least 2 and so on. It takes a massive amount if our time, this is a school nursery of 3-4 year olds. The increase over the last 6 years of nappies & regular toilet accidents is staggering, parents don't care and these are children with no SEND needs.

So if a child threw up they would be left sat covered in vomit until picked up?

if a child was injured they would be left bleeding until picked up?

of course not. It may be a pain but you find a way for the sake of the child.

Then a class doubles up while a teacher deals with it. Or everyone goes out for an impromptu extra playtime and adults are redistributed accordingly. As I said, I'm not suggesting it won't be disruptive, just not impossible.

If a school lacks the resources to practically and physically manage all the children safely should an untoward situation occur then they are unfit to be open.

Have you missed the funding crisis?

Where in my post did I suggest hiring someone else?

Additionally, lack of funding does not ever justify leaving a child in need unattended.

How do you know they have no SEND needs ?even my severely autistic son wasent diagnosed untiill he was three and a some children present in different ways and are not diagnosed untill much later

Yes really rotten for the schools. Not surprised there is a shortage of teachers or TAs nowadays

How come the kids don't learn how to use the toilet in your setting?

What about the other 29 DC when anything else happens?

A disregulated child?

A missing child?

A poorly child?

A child refusing to come in?

A vomiting child?

A child that genuinely had an accident?

A child that needed diabetes treatment?

Or an Epi pen?

Or a seizure?

After 30+ years doing this job, while I am no expert in diagnosing children obviously, it is generally pretty obvious when there is an undiagnosed SEND need. The children we flag often don't yet their diagnosis until KS1 or 2. If I included the children with SEND (diagnosed or not) needs in our changing numbers it wouldn't actually increase that significantly as at the moment they are the ones with supportive, engaged parents, and they are doing better at using the toilet, while having a pull up as back up, than their neurotypical counterparts.

In the immediate short term of course the child should be dealt with. However the point is that if staff are repeatedly having to put aside the education of the other children in the room (or school) to change a child, there has to be accountability somewhere. Somewhere the parents have to realise that their child is their responsibility. SEND aside, why is it fair for 29 other children to have a daily extra playtime while X gets changed again?

Surely the point here is that it is not the occasional ‘accident’ or reasonable adjustments that staff are having to deal with, it is a much wider lack of potty training because it’s easier to keep a child in modern nappies and potty training can be hard work. ( I’m an ex childminder!) I’m now a secondary teacher and primary colleagues are finding this overwhelming.
The children can swipe but they can’t wipe.

They do, and at we also run parent workshops on toilet training. However, training the children is also taking staff away from the rest of the class, and impacts the day significantly. Plus we do all we can, but if parents aren't reinforcing the message at home it takes far, far longer.

Also I don't understand why people would want to keep on buying nappies, they were expensive in the 90s and most parents couldn't wait to toilet train to put a stop to this expense

I thought there was a cost of living crisis

I agree. It isn't fair. It isn't fair to the teachers, it isn't fair to the 29 children, it most certainly isn't fair to the soiled child in question. But we are where we are. Waxing lyrical about it being the parents responsibility is completely irrelevant to whether or not teachers should do it, even if true.

Call on the government if you choose, start a petition, volunteer to help yourself - but the suggested proposition to have parents come and change their children - to somehow force accountability - can not and will not work.

It sounds quite sensible to me. It protects everybody involved from SA or allegations of.

Exactly and antagonising neglectful parents isn't going to help the child ,the parents may then choose to keep the child at home

So what about babies and toddlers in childcare settings?

Believe me I am petitioning the government.

Doesn't change the fact that socially we need to expect parents to parent better than they are at the moment.

Honestly people will say "exceptions should be made for Sen but not lazy parents"

But I know people who were raised by heroin addicts who knew not to soil themselves at school. In my opinion almost all kids still in nappies at school will have special needs.

Obviously it's no easy issue to solve though if the teachers are busy trying to teach, an argument should be made for more special ed schools but that would cost a lot of money