AIBU in thinking this could spread rapidly to other schools? Parents have to come into school to change NT DCs if they soil themselves.

[CwmYoy]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/schools-tell-parents-if-your-34349942

It's been a long time coming but I can see it will spread now there are fewer TAs.

As long as SEN needs are taken into account I think it's a good idea.

This is true and a good point I forgot.
We didn’t have a phone either till probably about late 70s. ( After the fridge but years and years before a washing machine….thems the days.🤯 )
I was born 1966

@MrsSunshine2b nursery starting age is 3. So one year off. In some areas, even if you raised concerns at birth, you'd still be on the waiting list or only just seen at age 3.

Are you actually familiar with any of this stuff or are you just making stuff up as you go along to suit your own narrative?

You can have a completely non verbal, incontinent, self harming , putting everything in his mouth child at 3 or 4 and still no diagnosis until a year later. Can you see it? Yes. Can you prove it with a letter from the consultant? No.

I actually work in a school. In preschool (2 and a half yos) about 3/4 are in nappies/pull ups but being toilet trained. In nursery (3/4 yos) 99% of the children are in pants but do have quite frequent accidents (hell, I've had y6's having accidents) , in reception(5 yos) 99% of the children are fully toilet trained with the occasional accident. We do have 6 children in nappies, all bar one exactly how I described. The one that isn't (only 4 though) is making some progress and the parents are fully cooperative and supportive and putting the work in, we just add to it. All on the waiting list for SEN schools and one is now nearly 7 (still non verbal, still incontinent, mum and us fighting like fuck to get him a place and the support he actually needs).

Well I think this is fair enough. Perhaps it will promote parents teaching knowledge ds to use the potty/toilet before they start school.

It's like talking to a wall.

There's none so blind as those who will not see

Sick bay! I do remember having a first aid room when I was at school in the 80's, but the only primary schools that have them now are special schools. Our IT room has become a sensory room, our deputy heads office has become a 'quiet space/speech therapy room'. And I don't know who would staff the sick bay - matron has retired unfortunately.

Private school.
They have their own entire medical centre.

I went to state 70s /80s and like you we had sick bays and a matron then

Was this a private school/boarding school? And how long ago?

state 2004 to 2006…. They had a sick bay…no boarding

Then private from 2006 to 2022, they had a med centre with nurses. The school was all through 4-18 with mostly boarders from senior school ( 95% )

A normal age is between 2nd and 3rd birthday. Some children start reception aged 4 years and 1 day old. Add onto that children being born 4 months premature with a corrected age they are starting school aged 3 years 8 months, as was a child in my youngest class. So actually then less than a year delayed potentially, and with varying development rates they couod still fall broadly within range of normal.

I had to have my dc toilet trained for playgroup so I think it is fair enough unless there are SNs

And if there are "SNs"? But no diagnosis yet because the waiting lists are long and the children are very young?

I still think the parents need to take responsibility not the school

This was unheard of 20 years ago

Actually, not false. I am a teacher so know for a fact it's true.
Most TAs were, in the past not contracted to change nappies of school age children. Now more and more children are coming to school not potty trained. As a result, TAs contract state that one of their duties is to change nappies.

I don’t understand the sudden increase in numbers.
Why?

Disposable nappies mean children don't feel the discomfort of being wet, cut backs to HVs so they no longer help with things like toilet training and a dollop of lazy parents.

Up till around the late 1960s that was the case, but given how long ago that was, this is really meaningless.

But more children are spending time in nursery now (even if just for the “free” 15 hours per week), so I’d have thought that would help. Don’t nurseries have specific EYFS objectives for school readiness?

How can a school impose that sort of condition? Does that mean that, for instance, surgeons aren't allowed to have children or send them to school?

If the child/young adult had a care plan, yes, there would be staff to help.

You asking about a SEN teen with no care plan? I don’t get your point. There are many young people in education with care needs. Some with self care needs. Trained staff support students with self care.

@SlipDigby

@SavingTheBestTillLast

But what are the actual numbers? How many children are we talking about? What is the increase? Which children are we talking about?

I assume you have actual facts/numbers available?

For SEN at the mainstream nursery I am familiar with… there is “trained TA” for Sen with personal care needs.
There is a special personal care room. An electric lifting change table, gloves, wipes, PPE masks, disposable apron. Sink, etc. Parents supply the pull ups, clothes changes or what’s needed.
The TA is assigned to one child, she is not the nappy changer for the school. School, parents & local ed authority all signed and official for each child with personal care needs.

IDK what a parent does with child that needs nappy at school, and hasn’t got letter from Dr & agreement for support … I suppose they get to a GP and try sort it out. Parent needs to own the process.

I don’t. I was asking the question.
I didn’t know numbers had increased

The Association of Children and Lecturers commissioned a study on this issue a decade or so ago and several charities have carried out smaller surveys over the subsequent years.

But I really don't know what difference the precise number of children involved or their names makes to, frankly, anything that I said.

@SlipDigby because talking about "vast" numbers and increases without actual numbers and stats is rather pointless? It just allows people to make (very wrong) assumptions, draw (equally wrong) conclusions and just run with them as fact.

The hyperbole on this thread has been ridiculous, especially considering no one actually can answer how many kids, increased by how much etc.

And why are we still talking about nappies , when the latest survey describes it as “frequent toileting mishaps rather than occasional “ and no nappy is ever mentioned.

if we’re debating/discussing things, shouldn’t we at least know what we are talking about?

Here’s some articles