AIBU in thinking this could spread rapidly to other schools? Parents have to come into school to change NT DCs if they soil themselves.

[CwmYoy]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/schools-tell-parents-if-your-34349942

It's been a long time coming but I can see it will spread now there are fewer TAs.

As long as SEN needs are taken into account I think it's a good idea.

For goodness sake, it's a hypothetical situation. I'm a SENCO who fights tooth and nail to get all children the help they deserve. Every child deserves an education. My point was the size of the class is largely irrelevant. But yes, as per a pp, blame the individual teachers for terrible government funding. You're really telling me to be ashamed of myself for suggesting I try and keep a vulnerable child safe? Listen to yourself.

SIL has quit teaching after potty training 6 reception dc last year only to have them return in nappies after a holiday. It's appalling.

Rubbish.

I started school aged 4 in 1959.

I started teaching Early years in the early 80s. School nursery classes admitted children from 3 if there were places, sometimes full time. Reception took 'rising 5s' i.e. the term before they became t but there were 3 intakes in most, not all, schools so summer born children only had 1 term in Reception.

Right.

CaptainmyCaptain

Fair enough - I'm guessing things were a lot less standardised in the past throughout the country! But from my experience in the areas I've lived in, it was the standard and considered not at all odd to send your children to school the term after they've turned five, especially till I would say up to about 10-15 years ago, but suggest it nowadays and a lot will look at you as if you are some conspiracy theory loving, off-the-grid, prepper type!

Many kids did used to go pretty much straight into school without much pre-school experience at five. It's very possible that the kids who used to be put in early settings were just those that were developmentally ready. Delayed children would likely have been kept at home longer or looked after by family or child minders if both parents worked. That's not the done thing now.
It's very worrying if there is increasing social deprivation in some areas that may be causing issues and it needs thoroughly looking at. But it's also concerning that some people cannot accept that there is large variation in child development - a few posters have said that they have been embarrassed that their small children aren't toilet trained. Why? If a child isn't developmentally ready to do certain things, they are not developmentally ready. Maybe I'm biased, my kids have had very asynchronous development so I've had to be accepting!

I really want to see some hard evidence behind this idea that 10-15 years ago children who “weren’t ready” were just kept at home longer. Those kids are now y9 and certainly I don’t know any children in that cohort who did anything other than start in September.

I also don’t think that the 90s were some kind of utopia where there were unlimited special school places, either. I think there simply weren’t as many kids with SEN. And given nothing has changed about children’s biology in this time, we really need a clear eyed look at parenting IMO. Plenty of kids were in childcare from a much earlier age, simply because maternity leave was far less generous.

You're missing the point. Yes it's neglectful is the parents don't come - but crying about it not being a teachers job doesn't solve the problem in the moment - that a child is sitting in soiled clothes and needs changing.

Sometimes there will be legitimate reasons a parent can't come, sometimes it will be because they can't be arsed, sometimes it will be because of wilful neglect - but the child still needs addressing. Stamping your feet about who's job it is isn't helpful.

Would you like changing DC shitty nappies added to your job?

Teachers don’t do it though, it’s the TAs on the shitty minimum wage who are being given more and more responsibility for no extra pay.

Early years have set adult ratios for a reason.

Nobody likes changing nappies i i used to work in dementia care and changed many nappies of patients with dementia ,it's not something anyone relishes, but to leave an adult or child in their own waste products is neglect

It’s not added to the job anyway, intimate care will be in most TA contracts

Really?

Yep as TAs often do a lot of quite complex medical care too including,stoma, nappy changing for older children through medical need… There will be safeguarding arrangements meaning staff don’t do it alone .

And yes leaving any child in soiled clothes is neglect.

It’s not in my contract, but if everything I was expected to do was in my contract it would be about 1000 pages long!

but I care for the children so as much as i dislike it if one needs changing for whatever reason

What you don’t want is these children being taken out of school as they can very easily disappear from the system.

Would you like to sit in shitty and pee-soaked clothes for an hour, two hours, the whole day because the grown-ups in charge of your care refused to change you because 'they shouldn't have to'.

Is it fair for school staff to have to do it? No. Does a child's dignity and safe keeping trump that? Absolutely.

@caringcarer it's not added to the job it's part of the job. Just like dealing with toileting accidents , first aid,administering meds etc. In some schools teachers aren't even first aid trained , it's only the TA's and lunch ladies/office staff.

It's absolutely reasonable. DD is fully potty trained but had a bit of constipation recently which led to a couple of accidents over a weekend- DH had a quiet word with her teacher and said if there was a repeat to call us and one of us would come in straight away to get her changed.

There's not really any excuse for a typical 4 yo not to be fully potty trained.

I do feel that a lot of parents have been misled by the "readiness" propaganda into believing that they'll scar their child for life if they do anything other than patiently wait for their child to take themselves to the toilet and wipe their own bum.

Exactly. Peg feeding isn’t in the contract of DS support staff but because they are willing to be trained he can access mainstream education

This keeps happening though. Schools have ended up taking more and more parental responsibilities of feeding, nurturing, and now changing the nappies of children, all of which is making the role close to impossible and taking away from the primary purpose of schools, which is to educate the children, not parent them because their own parents can't be bothered.

It cannot continue. If a parent has decided not to potty train their child, it is their responsibility to change the child and it is them who should be charged with neglect if they do not come to school to change them.

So you'd be happy with your child's teacher leaving the classroom and going to her child's school to change her child's nappy? Or your GP? Or the person bringing your food shop? Or the police officer dealing with your issue?Or whatever?

Yep NG feeds, insulin ( alongside calculating the right amount), stoma, nappies for all sorts of reasons, all sorts of medication…are one of the many things TA do.All children deserve an education.

Agreed i think this is,what people are missing regardless of why the child is in nappies wether it's because their parents just can't arsed or there are some undiagnosed special needs
The safety and dignity of the child comes first always .