To not leave a tip on principle

[MyNeatLimeCat]

Had a pub meal with a group, main courses (burgers, curries etc) cost £20. An 'optional' service charge is listed on the bill.

£2 or £4 isn't going to break the bank. But I just don't want to support the system, on principle.

I don't want to cause group drama either. What should I do in this situation?

Good point, and how many people tip the hotel maid? That’s a very hard job that most people don’t give a thought to. I find the fixation on specifically tipping waiting staff odd (though I do it because it’s expected!)

I personally always tip, not on top of service charge. Everyone I eat outs with tips, though my friends from ‘back home’ less tip than my local friends (more affluent area).

I hate the idea of tips!! I agree with you op. If the waiters deserve a tip and food delivery drivers, why not Royal Mail staff, Amazon drivers, they work just as hard if not harder, what about the bin men, life wouldn't run smoothly without them, so why then does a waiter deserve it more for doing their job which they are being paid to do?

Also with these service charges these days, they don't go to staff, straight to the business, they've hiked the price of everything and then add service charge on top. Ridiculous. It's even hilarious that it's optional, so they want to make you look silly by refusing.

Even when you pay with card at certain stores now, you have the option to give in charity, press red for no and green for yes, infuriates me, why I'm I being forced to give, i will sort my own charity out.

I will never forget when I was eating at McDonald's restaurant with my kids, the manager went table to table talking about a charity and asking for donation. When she came to ours, I was already annoyed as I saw what she was doing to other customers, so I said to her I'm not interested before she could finish, bare in mind I'm in the middle of eating, she looked shocked and says it's a charity for children, I was like and?? If McDonald's cares so much about a children charity, take it out of the profits and give it, don't ask paying sat customers who are eating.

No it isn't. Are you saying that hospitality employers don't know when they hire people that they are going to get tips? Or that people accepting those jobs aren't aware that they will be tipped? Like any other job they will factor in salary, benefits, perks, holidays, hours etc and take a job on that basis. Just because it's a minimum wage job doesn't mean they shouldn't get tipped in addition. By that reckoning nobody should ever get above minimum wage for anything.

You could tip in cash, refusing to pay it as part of a bill. As used to be the case.

Hospitality work is tough , really tough with low pay & demanding unsocial hours ….
Ask yourself if you would do the job ….. give a cash tip …

I totally agree with you. A tip is optional and for me depends on the service and quality of the food. I went out last week for a Christmas meal with a few friends it was quite expensive. The meal wasn't good but apart from one small issue we didn't complain although in hindsight we should have done. For example 3 halves of new potato 6 carrots and 6 sprouts between 2 people is a bit of a joke. Cheesecake with the base as thick as the top which would have been o.k if it hadn't have been like concrete. The service was o.k not great But what rattled me when we came to pay the bill we all wanted to pay separately as 2 had shared a bottle of wine and a couple only had water etc. My bill came to £32.00 odd I wanted to pay cash. I gave the young girl on the bar 2 £20 notes she looked at them then at me like I'd landed from another planet. Then she said, "Would you like change from that " Well yes I would. I couldn't believe it

What makes you think I haven't done the job?

"What should I do in this situation?"

Get a grip? Either tip, or don't tip. Maybe your colleagues will notice, maybe they won't. Maybe your choice will colour their opinion of you from now on, maybe it won't. Whatever.

It doesn't really mean people have to/should tip though. Hospitality job isn't significantly harder than other minimum wage jobs for example personal care and isn't disadvantageg compared to them as in the USA.

The only reason why majority tips is a social pressure and as such it can be reversed. Staff wanting better pay is ok, but they should take it up with their employers, not with the customers.

I ask them to take the optional tip off the bill and will tip the waiter/waitress directly with cash. I refuse to pay it as part of the bill as when I worked in a restaurant when I was younger and the optional tip went on the bill and we never saw any of it as the restaurant kept it all

Working in an office isn't significantly harder than other minimum wage jobs. Since when is pay related to the 'hardness' of a job. Why do you have an inherent belief that waiting staff should earn minimum wage simply because other minimum wage jobs exist.

What is your "principle" on tipping?

I’m in my fifties, and tipping has always been a thing in the UK for me, and not just in expensive restaurants. And we didn’t even watch ITV as kids, so no US influence back then 🤣

In my experience any meal out involving an order taken at a table by an actual person has always involved a tip. And meals involving table service even often involves a tip. A pub meal brought to the table definitely always meant a tip. And, from my student days waitressing and from talking to people over the years, tips are generally shared front and back of house.

No tips for drinks at the bar (unlike the US) or the fast food places though. A few coins thrown in the jar at a cafe has also always been a thing, but not as much expectation to do so than for full table service.

I do, if staying somewhere for at least a few days, especially abroad, I'd leave any leftover currency (within reason!) to the housekeepers:)

Tipping is standard on the USA as staff get paid very low wage as tips are expected to cover the wages, That's why great servers give great service, and people called names who don't tip as its an insult. Servers can earn hundreds of dollars in tips but it's not guaranteed. I've bagged groceries at a supermarket in the US where I have had to pay per hiur for the privilege to have access to the checkout lines and even then your not guaranteed a top. In the UK servers are paid a wage which is at or above a minimum wage so different to the US and tips are discretionary for exceptional service. I'm a Postie and walk in excess of 30,000 steps carrying up to 16kg navigating evil letterboxes that rips your fingers to shreds for hours on end in all weather carrying precious cargo to doorsteps.... How many of you tip your Postie even once a year? Tips are a way to say thank you and recognising someone going above and beyond to give you and exceptional experience it's not something to be taken for granted or expected when doing a job you already get paid for.
So if you are left feeling you want to thank staff for your experience then go ahead and top. It's discretionary and not an entitlement.

As far as I know most restaurants split tips across the team, including back of house. I always tip - can only think of two occasions where service was so poor I didn’t. Don’t add one if compulsory service charge - hate this! Agree it’s weird some industries have tipping culture and some don’t.

When it’s a group and one person doesn’t chip in I will put in extra and make a mental note.

If this is your personal bugbear that’s fine, but it’s not really fair to drag your friends into “making a stand”. One of them is sure to make up the difference, especially if it’s a built-in charge - they’ll view it as part of the bill. This will save you a couple of quid but cost your friends more, not lead to the venue missing out on your percentage of the service charge.

If you really want to make a stand go to the desk/bar (or ask for) and pay your bill separately. That way you can refuse to cover service charge and the rest of your group pay for their own service charge.

I always tip, but if you think about it, you don't feel a need to add a tip for a solicitor, or a dentist, or the postman do you. Why tip waiters when they are just doing their job? is it just in recognition of the fact that they are underpaid? I'd rather they just improved pay and increased the price of the food, so that us customers don't have to do that dance of "to tip or not....how much to tip..."

The hardness reflected in pay is typically hardness of hiring/training a person able to do the job.

I don't say that the waiting staff deserve exactly minimal wage, I just see tipping as rather undignified and weird way to pay people. It creates unhealthy dynamics (bending over backwards) and bullies people to pay more than the list price without any understanding what happens with the money next.
I believe they should earn normal wage as everyone else - contractual and taxed. If the prices go up, so be it, at least it will be clear what are real costs of running the business with competitive going rate compared to other jobs.

I just don't see why waiting staff should be any other case than other employees. It isn't like in the USA, where the waiting staff is singled out and has lower basic rate because the tips are effectively mandatory.

I had this carry on when I went there a while back. Never tipped either lol there was literally no service to tip for!

Ok Mr Pink.

I agree with her

But the point is that that's how they earn their wage, a portion of it is earned through tips. In some jobs a portion of your salary is earned through bonuses. Some people get paid overtime. Some don't. Why pick on waiting staff, a low paid job even with tips, and decide you personally will withhold some of their expected pay because you would prefer them to be paid under a different system. Everybody knows that you pay in the region af 10-14% in tips, it's part of the cost of your meal, and if you can't afford to pay it then you can't afford to eat out unfortunately. Actually it seems the OP can afford to pay it, but chooses not too, because out of all the unfair and silly employment systems that exist in the UK they have decided that it is somehow incumbent on them to make a stand about hospitality staff receiving their tips. Or maybe they are just a bit of a twat, dressing their twatness up as some sort of principle. Really, if you care about having fair wages in the UK there are many better ways to go about it than by attacking the rights of waiting staff.

Well I agree with her in principle too, but I also feel that there is no benefit to taking this action. Some principles are worth taking a stand on and will result in change.

• Calling out racism - the person will think twice about their views and others know it’s not ok.
• Insisting on equal pay with men - paves the way for change and sets a precedent, example and expectation for other women.
• Standing up for a charity or cause - raising awareness, funds. etc.

Refusing to leave a tip though - what is accomplished? Nothing. The waiter is probably anxious that they did something wrong or that you weren’t happy with the meal. Nobody else knows you didn’t leave a tip. Nothing gained other than your pocket. No cause served, just seems rather tight to me.

That's not true.
There is no general standard saying what will happen with the extra money
There is a confusion whether tipping is part of the price or a way to thank for exceptional service. (See the other thread about "tipping the bin man" where it is outright bribe/pay for non-standard service)
If it is part of the pay, just include it in the price and get rid of the songs and dances around it.
If it is optional, it is optional.
If it is meant for exceptional service, don't expect it in normal average ok case.